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Thread: Being an Ally

  1. #1

    Default Being an Ally

    I am an ally for my LGTBQ+ friends and I (and my friends) have been wondering what being an ally to an ABDL* means. Obviously a lot of us have never thought about what it would be like to be out or to have an ally, but I am sure we could figure out what is important. My non-abdl ally asked me one day if he should stop calling me "big man" as he thought it might offend me because as an ABDL I might identify as a child. This brings up a good point about phrasing. Just as saying "that is so gay" is cruel there are things that are cruel to say to ABDL*s. Saying things like "stop acting like a baby" or "man up" (not relating to ABDL, just a general usage) seem really offensive to me. "Stop acting like a Sissy" insults the entire subset of ABDL*s who identify as sissies. Also anti-diaper comments and making fun of incontinence is also pretty irritating.

    My site ABout ABDL - About ABDLs has a page about being an ally to an ABDL*. What do you guys think? I feel like I nailed a lot of things.

    Thanks,
    foreversmall

  2. #2

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    Wow! I think you're living in a different world than I am. I'm really sort of confused. I honestly didn't, and still don't understand what an ally is, other than the backstreet kind. Looking at your site, I get the feeling it's for people who are very "out" as AB/DLs, which most of us aren't. In other words, no one is going to deliberately say something offensive to me about being AB/DL because they don't know I am one.

    In my circles, I've never heard someone say anything derogatory about AB/DLs because they don't even know we exist. We are not only invisible to the mainstream, but we are a miniscule part of society. I don't need support as an AB/DL from ordinary people and in fact, I don't want them to know my bedroom business. Having friends and support on this site is by far, enough for me.

    Perhaps you can explain further as to what you mean by ally and who all is involved with this. As a side note, I am not being critical or negative to your post. I just feel like I don't understand.

  3. #3

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    An ally can is someone who is supportive and accepts the person who is ABDL*. "ally" is primarily used to refer to those who support the LGTBQ* community.
    My friends I am out to who support me are allys. They talk to me when I am feeling down and try to stop ABDL*-phobia and stigmas when they see them.


    From My Website:

    ABDLs are everywhere. We could be your neighbor. Your friend. Your child. This is reality. An ally is someone who supports their ABDL* friend or family member and works to end the stigmas and prejudices faced by the ABDL* community. Being an ally means ensuring that others are treated with the respect and dignity they deserve. ABDL*s are a minority. Without allies being ABDL* can be unspeakably lonely. Allies make all the difference in the world.

    Things Allies can do to help:

    Be a listener.
    Be open-minded.
    Be willing to talk.
    Chose words carefully so as not to alienate ABDL*s. Calling an adult a "baby" for example, is derogatory towards an ABDL*. Acting like a baby does not make us less valuable as people.
    Believe that all people, regardless of age identity and sexual proclivities, should be treated with dignity and respect.
    Don't rule out the possibility that someone close to is ABDL*. Someone close to you could be looking for support in their coming-out process. Not making assumptions will give them the space they need.
    Do not out people if they do not want to be out to everyone. Respect their wishes.
    Be kind and respectful to incontinent people. Never make fun of someone for wearing diapers.
    Defend your ABDL* friends against discrimination, and bullying.
    Confront your own prejudices against ABDL*s, even if it is uncomfortable to do so.
    Do not make jokes at the expense of ABDL*s. We are real people who have feelings.
    Do not spread misconceptions and stigmas about ABDL*s.
    Remind us that although we are different, we still have just as much value as individuals as any other person.


    Additional Tips:
    Avoid using phrases that devalue individuals based on their age expression. Examples would be "act your age", "immature", "childish"
    Don't preface a statement on ABDL* issues with “I’m not an ABDL*, but…”
    Don't think of people as “my ABDL* friend” just think of them as your friend.
    Avoid making homophobic jokes or statements
    Realize that ABDL*s are still perfectly capable of being grown ups. We want to be treated as grown ups arguably in most contexts. Don't patronize us all the time. Babytalk can be cute at first, but it gets old rather quickly.


    "In my circles, I've never heard someone say anything derogatory about AB/DLs because they don't even know we exist. We are not only invisible to the mainstream, but we are a miniscule part of society. I don't need support as an AB/DL from ordinary people and in fact, I don't want them to know my bedroom business. Having friends and support on this site is by far, enough for me."

    For some of us it is not "bedroom business". I am asexual. It is necessary for me to be out to those closest to me. I leave my diapers and stuffed animals out in my room. I don't scream it from the roof tops but to enjoy the lifestyle I lead I must be prepared to tell people why when they ask questions. I don't make excuses to hide why I have a teddy bear or a pacifier.

    My friends who are allies help me have the courage to be myself. They help me by giving me an outsiders perspective. My old roomie saw a bunch of ABDL*-phobic comments on reedit or something and "weighed in his opinion" on the matter after knowing me for years. If it were not for my friends I would not be out. My PRIDE family are usually a bit taken back by the fact that any ABDL* would want to stay closeted to everyone. A few of my friends get a bit angry with me for not being comfortable with myself.

    Being closeted for my entire childhood nearly trashed my relationship with my parents. They could never figure out what was "wrong with me". I was miserable in the closet.
    Last edited by ForeverSmall; 08-Jul-2013 at 04:34.

  4. #4

  5. #5

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    Well since being an ABDL is not about being an actual child and emotional maturity is a virtue, I don't find "grow up" as an expression offensive, unless it's being used to bully someone with a genuine emotional problem.

    "Man up" and "Stop acting like a Sissy" have a pretty clear basis in sexism/homophobia and I find them offensive for that reason. I don't find myself reacting so strongly to anti-diaper comments and making fun of incontinence, but they are still a type of ableism (prejudice against disability.)

    I am B and a little bit T myself, and I think of ABDL as being qualitatively different LGBTect. It's a kink - either in your personality or sexuality (or both, for me I think.) It's not something that defines your whole life experience (as being transsexual must do) or a major part of your life (as with LGB.) I don't see our interests as ABDL as distinct from the interests of other people with Kinks or fetishes - we have a stigma of paedophilia to deal with, but people into BDSM have stigma about being "abusive" (as in Domestic Abuse) for example.
    I think the demands of kinky people are pretty simple - don't mock us (unduly) or stigmatise us or stir up hate against us, don't force us out of jobs for something we do in the bedroom, leave us alone if we aren't doing any harm or getting in other peoples business.
    I think being an ally for that is straightforward:
    1) don't do any of that shit yourself,
    2) make it known you think that discrimination against people for what they do alone or with consenting others is absurd, and that it wont make you buy a newspaper or vote for/against someone
    3) act in favour of proper relationship, health and sex education

    I appreciate what you're doing, and I think it has merit, but from a political activist standpoint, I think we would be better off in alliance with other (more common and mainstream acceptable) Kinks and trying for a more kink/fetish tolerant/accepting society, rather than acting against ABDL*-phobia. ABDL*-phobia is not an ideology or a widespread sentiment, it's a prejudiced reaction with a basis in hostility to behaviour that is non-conforming to gender and sexuality norms.

    My thoughts anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
    I'm really sort of confused. I honestly didn't, and still don't understand what an ally is, other than the backstreet kind.
    Nah, that alley's got an e in it ;-)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
    Wow! I think you're living in a different world than I am....

    In my circles, I've never heard someone say anything derogatory about AB/DLs because they don't even know we exist. We are not only invisible to the mainstream, but we are a miniscule part of society. I don't need support as an AB/DL from ordinary people and in fact, I don't want them to know my bedroom business. Having friends and support on this site is by far, enough for me.
    I'm guessing ForeverSmall is a student (or recently was one) as well as being heavily involved in the LGBT* movement. Nothing wrong with that (a lot right with it) but I think that's influencing him to conceptualise ABDL using the same language and methods as for LGBT issues - the idea of being "agequeer" for example - in a way that isn't appropriate for ABDL (at least in the vast majority of cases.)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverSmall View Post
    My friends who are allies help me have the courage to be myself. They help me by giving me an outsiders perspective. My old roomie saw a bunch of ABDL*-phobic comments on reedit or something and "weighed in his opinion" on the matter after knowing me for years. If it were not for my friends I would not be out. My PRIDE family are usually a bit taken back by the fact that any ABDL* would want to stay closeted to everyone. A few of my friends get a bit angry with me for not being comfortable with myself.

    Being closeted for my entire childhood nearly trashed my relationship with my parents. They could never figure out what was "wrong with me". I was miserable in the closet.
    What's right for your LGBT* friends may not be right for you. I think maybe you're looking at your life too much through the lens of your ABness, and that's leading to a distorted analysis. Even if that's not the case (and I don't know you so maybe it isn't) for most ABDLs this is not such a major thing as perhaps it is for you.

    I'm not an advocate for total closeting - if you have the sort of friends who have casual and detailed conversations about your sex life with, then yeah, talk to them about it. If you're in a serious relationship with someone, absolutely tell them.
    If OTH you wouldn't talk to your parents or your gran about e.g. pegging - no need to tell them about it.

  6. #6

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    snip

    Hey, thanks for the clarification, and from you as well ForeverSmall. Understanding it through GLBD it makes a little more sense. I think the difference is that many of us as gay our out. It's different than being AB/DL however. Things that might be derogatory in terms of being AB/DL I've learned to let roll off my back. Saying something derogatory towards gay people gets my ire up however. You know what they say however. Haters will be haters. We as people of love need to find effective ways to end hate. I find education to be an effective tool.

    As for you ForeverSmall, God bless you in your efforts. The world is slowly changing, and more of us who are different are finding acceptance.

  7. #7

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    First and foremost I like your effort and the amount of thought you have put into it. You also give a good resource for others in the community with a similar mindset. However, I do question overall your methodology and some of the reasons you give. I'm just going to go through the post.



    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverSmall
    Chose words carefully so as not to alienate ABDL*s. Calling an adult a "baby" for example, is derogatory towards an ABDL*. Acting like a baby does not make us less valuable as people.
    I think your operating too much under the assumption that ABDL's have the exact same needs as the LGTBQ community. This confuses me because 1) this isn't a normal occurrence for most 2) there isn't really a known set of names really insulting to us (that carries such weight) that makes it confusing to said allies. I am not a public AB/DL in that sense, and my partner often calls me that which I enjoy on a personal note.



    Believe that all people, regardless of age identity and sexual proclivities, should be treated with dignity and respect.
    Is Age Identity a long standing, common issue for a lot of people? Some of your arguments and conclusions might have more weight if you explained that more. Perhaps something like this? http://www.midus.wisc.edu/findings/pdfs/798.pdf or a disorder. Usually individuals that believe and act like they are 4 years old, cannot function properly in society and need some form of help so they can.



    Don't rule out the possibility that someone close to is ABDL*. Someone close to you could be looking for support in their coming-out process. Not making assumptions will give them the space they need
    Are all AB/DL's looking to "come out?" This entire page makes it sound like it, which doesn't seem to be the truth. It also sounds like they need special treatment. Do I need to tell my friend he needs to get over the fact I'm going to build a nursery in our basement...?



    Do not out people if they do not want to be out to everyone. Respect their wishes.
    Be kind and respectful to incontinent people. Never make fun of someone for wearing diapers.
    This is really just about being a good human being.



    For some of us it is not "bedroom business". I am asexual. It is necessary for me to be out to those closest to me. I leave my diapers and stuffed animals out in my room. I don't scream it from the roof tops but to enjoy the lifestyle I lead I must be prepared to tell people why when they ask questions. I don't make excuses to hide why I have a teddy bear or a pacifier.
    This is something you really need to explain a bit so others will understand your position. How is this not "bedroom business" to you? Why does being "asexual" have weight there? I have a lot of AB tendencies and they sneak out, such to the extent my long standing friend said "Geno your such a little kid" in a joking manner. I very much enjoy my ba-ba's and paci's and being a little with my partner. But I choose so privately. It is not necessary for me to, nor do I think it's a greater necessity for the majority of AB/DL's as what I've seen throughout the community, to be public. I suppose that's were our life-styles differ drastically. Even then, I'm not sure what you mean by "life-style" here. Are you planning on taking your pacifier and teddybear to your office job with you? I don't understand.

    Trusted kinky friends and my partner are a different affair.




    If it were not for my friends I would not be out. My PRIDE family are usually a bit taken back by the fact that any ABDL* would want to stay closeted to everyone. A few of my friends get a bit angry with me for not being comfortable with myself.
    Some people enjoy their privacy, and find it a private affair. Not very surprising. My partner understands it's a private affair and is not pushing me to be out because he thinks I'm uncomfortable with myself. He has other fetishes (such as blood and S&M) he considers to be private affairs. It's definitely not water cooler talk. Being comfortable with yourself and being "out" are totally separate things and come with them--certain needs.




    Being closeted for my entire childhood nearly trashed my relationship with my parents. They could never figure out what was "wrong with me". I was miserable in the closet.
    I sympathize and understand to an extent, but I'm not sure what needs related to AB/DL in your life caused this exactly where you needed to be "out." Even then, I'm confused to comparisons to the LGTBQ community on it as the needs of these two communities are very different.



    Quote Originally Posted by MsClaraRiddle
    I'm guessing ForeverSmall is a student (or recently was one) as well as being heavily involved in the LGBT* movement. Nothing wrong with that (a lot right with it) but I think that's influencing him to conceptualise ABDL using the same language and methods as for LGBT issues - the idea of being "agequeer" for example - in a way that isn't appropriate for ABDL (at least in the vast majority of cases.)
    I have similar thoughts.

    This site looks geared specifically to people with a very similar background you have, and it's great you can cater to that niche in the community. As I said though, I think there's other things that can be done more generally than with this mindset and is probably not going to be very useful to the majority here.
    Last edited by Geno; 08-Jul-2013 at 06:33.

  8. #8

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    My advice is to learn to not be so sensitive to 'phrasing'. It will open up a whole new world in which your valuable time is not being spent on being worried about what you label yourself as vs. hearing 'phrased' remarks about it.

    The ability to not take everything personal is a gift. A gift that everyone has access to. It's a choice. It's a choice involving perspective.

  9. #9

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    The purpose for my "how to be an ally" page is to help family members of out ABDL*s be supportive. My friends and family are always like "what can I do to help you?/make you feel comfortable ect. My webpage is to help any abdl*s who want to be out and people who are accidentally outed. Not every ABDL* wants to be out, but shit happens. Shit happens quite a lot. Almost every ABDL* has been caught at least once and had to lie their wary out. Additionaly you all do realize that we are all allies here at a disc for one another. Sometimes folks within the ABDL* community could use a pointer about how to treat other ABDL*s. Most ABDL*-phobia comes from within the community anyway. Everyone on this website is an ally.

    "ABDL*-phobia is not an ideology or a widespread sentiment" It does not have to be a widespread statement or ideology to merit a term. ABDL*-phobia is the irrational fear of ABDL*s + associated negative reactions based on misconceptions and said fears.

    "This is something you really need to explain a bit so others will understand your position. How is this not "bedroom business" to you? Why does being "asexual" have weight there? I have a lot of AB tendencies and they sneak out, such to the extent my long standing friend said "Geno your such a little kid" in a joking manner. I very much enjoy my ba-ba's and paci's and being a little with my partner. But I choose so privately. It is not necessary for me to, nor do I think it's a greater necessity for the majority of AB/DL's as what I've seen throughout the community, to be public. I suppose that's were our life-styles differ drastically. Even then, I'm not sure what you mean by "life-style" here. Are you planning on taking your pacifier and teddybear to your office job with you? I don't understand."

    The thought of mixing sexuality with my ABDL* personally horrifies me. The bedroom is literally the only place ABDL* does not influence my life. Being asexual makes it so I basically don't even have a bedroom.

    As far as involving ABDL* in my life goes. I drive with my paci to reduce stress. I use my paci like gum in various instances when Im craving junk food so I do not overeat. I wear toddler like tshirts. I bring a small 8 inch teddy bear with me in my backpack most days. I bring my full sized teddy into the movie theater. I always buy/look at toys. My ABDL* ways heavily on what products I buy.

    As far being relatable to LGTBQ*, I know I felt/feel uncomfortable with my aging body. Getting facial hair depressed me similarly as I imagine it would upset a transgender person. Acne. Loosing my baby face. These changes upset me. Luckly I stayed small, 130 lbs. If turned into a hairy 200 lbs man I would be pretty unhappy. The big differences I see between gender dysphoria and my experiences is the fact that I was initially happy with my body and was forced to watch it slowly disappear. Staying young or going back in time was all I thought about when I was a kid.


    Being in the closet means making serious sacrifices. Perhaps not buying a crib for fear of it being discovered by guests. Or perhaps something worse like missing out on a happy fulfilling relationship. Finding that special someone without disclosing one’s ABDL+ is unfair and in some instances leads to one being consistently incompatible with others. Dating as a closeted ABDL+ is gambling. Why have a ten year marriage of secrets and hidden malcontent? ABDL+ have unique emotional needs. Choosing to ignore these needs is unfair, as is suprising a signifigant other a year into a long-term relationship. ABDL+ individuals also may desire other types of relationships, non-sexual ones such as baby/caretaker, or little sibling ..ect. A closeted ABDL+ cannot pursue these types of relationships.


    Ultimately ABDL* means different things to different people. What is right for me may not be right for you. I am by no means the only ABDL* who feels the way I do about being out. There are a dozen or so people who have come out on tv or have shown their real name/face. (Riley Kilo, Ella, BabyMitchy Kat, Stanley, Adrian Surley, lots of people I don't know their names). I know a lot of member here have asked about coming out. Everyone just blasts them for coming out, and then they leave or their courage to come out is destroyed. ABDL*s who want to be out may be a minority, however this is still hundreds of lives at least. At least. We have not exactly opened that door as a possibility here. If we as a community adopted a more "come out if you want it is your choice" attitude more people might say they want to come out. But instead those of us who want come out get the third degree if we say we want to be out.

    I pose this question: If you lived in a world where no one ever was judgmental and one could do whatever they wanted, would you act differently than you do now? I know I would certaintly act differently than I do now.

    My website is not for you. My website is for individuals who either choose to be out or are accidentally outed. My website also serves the purpose of giving general information to the public. People obviously got on the internet after watching ABDL*s appear on tv to find out more. Having a bunch of diaper porn websites pop up is unacceptable. My website also serves to get teen babies up to speed rather than have them lurking around diaper porn websites and kink forums.
    Last edited by ForeverSmall; 08-Jul-2013 at 15:32.

  10. #10

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    Oh and everyone who is on diaper mates ect/ has a picture of their face.... They are out. Your employers can find that stuff pretty easily.
    Internet privacy is becoming a thing of the past. Embedded image location tags, facial recognition, new laws.... It may get really difficult to hide. We need to get our house in order before this happens.

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