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Thread: I judge people who use poor grammar.

  1. #1

    Default I judge people who use poor grammar.

    And I'm really curious how everyone else feels about that.

    I'm not talking about people who make the occasional error in typography or agreement or such. There errors happen to the best of us, and they get compounded for people who revise posts as they write them. I know this from personal experience as I write this way; this is also why if anyone sees a post I wrote while in a passionate mood, you'll see it adjusted 5-6 times over the 20 minutes following me hitting Submit Post.

    However, there are people whose posts are regularly compounded by frequent and diverse errors. Not just lazy mistakes like skipping capitalization, but mistakes that make me think the person actually just has poor literacy.

    • Words spelled phoneticly.
    • Sentences that ramble and go nowhere and oh I like cats does anyone else like cats and yea you're right about that point you made I guess. [stream-of-consciousness sentences]
    • Totally weird and,, wrong,, punctuation.
    • People who format a post physically like whatever the fuck. You all know the posts I mean. If you don't... sorry.


    I don't make a big stink about it, typically, because I understand that many people lack literacy skills (frankly, many people do) and some to bad degrees. I don't bitch at people for it for the same reason I don't bitch at someone in a wheelchair because they broke their leg. It's rarely their fault, and few people stay less-than-literate (hypoliterate?) by choice.

    However, it gets me when such people are posting in the mature topics forum about really esoteric issues that really require a lot of abstract and non-intuitive thought. If you didn't come out of school with decent literacy, I tend to be skeptical of how much you sharpened your critical thinking skills along the way. I have a tendency to discard opinions by some people on more esoteric matters for this reason. Please note that this goes for people I agree with as well as disagree with on various issues.

    Am I the only one? Is this wrong? Or do other people do it as well?

  2. #2

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    Only one? Nope. Is it wrong? No idea, but I have to agree with you entirely on all of this.

    I have a terrible time talking to people who do not have a basic understanding of the English language and its rules. I try to avoid speaking to those people at all costs simply because it's too obnoxious to try and decipher the mess they spewed out at me in the form of text.

  3. #3

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    I think it is wrong, but I'm not here to tell you how to live your life. I feel the need to express why I feel that way, and hope that this isn't taken as me directly saying I think you are an awful person. I think that just asking if this behavior is bad shows that you at least really think about the way you act which is a wonderful thing. I think we should always monitor how we are reacting and acting to the other people around us.

    Now I admit some bias on this issue since many of the issues you have spoken directly about I have suffered from before. Not that I make a tendency of speaking very casually in the mature topics forum. I just hardly think someone making some errors in their grammar is a sign of how bright they are and what value their input could be on the situation.

    The concept that someone isn't good enough to listen to if they haven't passed my grammar test seems very cold, I can't even comprehend treating another beautiful human being in this fashion. I do believe that someone is truly capable of having a firm grasp of one topic and a bad grasp on the English language. Some of us aren't skilled at everything after all and some of us are only skilled at a few things. We could still be bright though and be able to think about something deeply. I wouldn't want deciding that just because I struggle to do even double digit multiplication and large division that my input might as well be ignored.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroCat View Post
    I have a terrible time talking to people who do not have a basic understanding of the English language and its rules.
    While it's not what you're referring to, I'll note that non-native English speakers are an exception to my rant.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    I think it is wrong, but I'm not here to tell you how to live your life. I feel the need to express why I feel that way, and hope that this isn't taken as me directly saying I think you are an awful person. I think that just asking if this behavior is bad shows that you at least really think about the way you act which is a wonderful thing. I think we should always monitor how we are reacting and acting to the other people around us.

    Now I admit some bias on this issue since many of the issues you have spoken directly about I have suffered from before. Not that I make a tendency of speaking very casually in the mature topics forum. I just hardly think someone making some errors in their grammar is a sign of how bright they are and what value their input could be on the situation.
    Keep in mind that I'm excluding people who make occasional errors. I make occasional errors too (and goddamn if I'm not triple-checking every post in this thread for them). I'm talking about people who make a post with more errors than words and errors that appear to be ones of fundamental understanding rather than errors of harried typography.

    I'm also not referring to tone. I tend to type in my casual voice on the MT forum as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by gigglemuffinz View Post
    The concept that someone isn't good enough to listen to if they haven't passed my grammar test seems very cold, I can't even comprehend treating another beautiful human being in this fashion.
    Please note that I don't mean to imply that a person who doesn't communicate in English effectively doesn't deserve dignity or respect. I'm saying that if a person never understood how to write a proper sentence, I'm rather skeptical of how well they grasp concepts of, say, particle physics in a system of infinite dimensions.

    People with learning disabilities- dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc- are another exception for me. I actually had a brilliant dysgraphic professor once. The fact that he could spell conservationalist audibly but couldn't write it was a matter of ability, not intelligence. He gave his examinations verbally.

    Also, I think it's valid to note that this doesn't refer to anyone in threads I'm currently posting in. This isn't an attempt to sneak a dig at someone I disagree with.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by AEsahaettr View Post
    Please note that I don't mean to imply that a person who doesn't communicate in English effectively doesn't deserve dignity or respect. I'm saying that if a person never understood how to write a proper sentence, I'm rather skeptical of how well they grasp concepts of, say, particle physics in a system of infinite dimensions..
    I know you don't mean to say they don't deserve dignity and respect and all.

    It's just.. there is being skeptical and there is just outright ignoring? If someone has a good point, you should read it and make sure there isn't an intelligent viewpoint hidden among the bad grammar. You should at least give it a chance, even if you are skeptical. When you said in your first post that you 'discard' opinions, it sort of felt a little.. harsh to me at the time.

    That's really all I should have said, I'm not sure why I'm speaking so roughly the last few days. Forgive me. I had checked the post over and over for typos and an overly harsh tone but I still feel bad about it.

  6. #6

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    Careful there...

    Just for your info, if you want to be a grammer-nazi:

    "phoneticly" should be spelled like this: phonetically
    hypoliterate -> usually two words: hypo literate or hypo-literate.

    I didn't go in depth on your text... but I always find it interesting, when someone complains about other people's lack of spelling abilities and makes this a point, and then has some errors in their own writings
    mirror mirror on the wall.


    ==

    Sure I get the general idea.
    For me, if some text is unintelligible due to spelling, construction, choice of words, punctuation - well I don't like to read it.
    Same goes if someone does that - in my not so humble opinion - stupid baby-talk.
    Makes it hard to read and I usually won't bother.
    But common, a few mistakes? ever checked a major newspaper? hey, they PRINT mistakes despite having professional proof-readers.

    ===

    On another note:
    Foreign language speakers... Or non-native english speakers.
    Well it's the global internet, somehow english has become the no.1 international language. But not everyone grew up speaking it as a native language, went to school and learned how to write english.
    Some are bilingual (I am), some have learned it on their own....
    Then also, not every native speaker had the same upbringing, education, chances, etc... sure ANYONE can learn / improve, not everyone wants to or has the capacity to do so.
    When I'm in the UK, despite the fact that I grew up there, I'm not able to "compete" with everyone language-skill wise... I've been living outside of the UK for a good part of my life, and usually speak a different language in my day-to-day life. Whilst I keep reading almost exclusively English materials, and watch movies & stuff in english and of course visit my guys in the UK quite often, it still is not the same as if I'd be speaking & writing English on a daily basis.
    But even in the UK there's vast differences. One of my best friends comes from a rather "upper-class" family, accent & all . Besides he studied English as a major... his English is by far better than mine - of course and still a lot better than that most of my buddies in the UK who had a "normal" upbringing and didn't study the stuff.
    Another good friend of mine from the UK grew up in a really poor family, had to go to work besides his last few years of school, etc... his grades were bad, his job used to be rather "low-end"... and he had tons of other problems at hand than getting better at English.
    Judging someone for this, well it's probably not the nicest thing.
    Last edited by EPO1; 23-Mar-2013 at 14:03.

  7. #7

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    Honestly, I both agree and disagree with that.

    Because while I will admit that it urks me that certain people can't use proper pronunciation (capitals, full stops, comma's and the like) when generally talking online and such, some of those same people can/will use it when they properly need to like in a resume or an e-mail or something like it.

    But it's the people that use horrid grammar and then have the gall to say that they're not only right, but also correct other people on their own grammar. Those who use it properly when they need to at least know how to use it correctly or are getting better at using it, but it's the people stated before that really get on my nerves and whom I personally judge as idiots.

    //rantover
    Last edited by Braddeh; 23-Mar-2013 at 13:19.

  8. #8

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    Oh so posts like this....



    While such posts make my head spin, most of the time I will not respond to them. If my gut tells me it's due to a person's lack of English being their first language or other issues (such as dysgraphia, or a phone with auto correct) then they get a pass. If my gut tells me this person does not, they do it on purpose (is lazy ect.) and then expect people to understand them and whine when they don't (and often)...my judgement is honestly pretty swift.

    Don't ask me how my gut makes the distinction.



    However, it gets me when such people are posting in the mature topics forum about really esoteric issues that really require a lot of abstract and non-intuitive thought. If you didn't come out of school with decent literacy, I tend to be skeptical of how much you sharpened your critical thinking skills along the way.
    As a whole though in making that particular judgement, I can relate to that in a way. But perhaps I disagree in a sense that such individuals require more non-intuitive thought through research so that they can be at such a level and be able to talk about it and think on it properly.
    Last edited by Geno; 23-Mar-2013 at 16:02.

  9. #9

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    It depends. I mean, i'm usually making a lot of mistakes, mostly wrong sentences. I'm trying as hard as i can and in end i'm editing my posts 2 times atleast. It's not my native language and i'm kinda writing just as i'm speaking... so it's my fault. I'm sorry, if something is just outstanding and you can't read it at all, just tell me please ^_-!

    Anyway, i'm fine with every misspelling*, horrible sentence constructions and mostly everything else in english, french and my native language. As long as there is some valid point, a sense in the post someone made.

    I'm just getting kinda confused if there is no punctuation and passages at all, so just a wall of text.

    Ultimately i think, everyone deserves a chance, read it before you judge it. It may be, that the whole post is just a mess, but still has a point, that you could miss otherwise. However, if it's just a mess without a message at all... well i think it's better to be kind and show that person his faults or simply ignore it.

    about misspelling, i couldn't resist, sorry!
    The olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer are at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. The barin atauclly rceongis pettarns rehtar tahn a wrod ;)

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPO1 View Post
    Careful there...

    Just for your info, if you want to be a grammer-nazi:

    "phoneticly" should be spelled like this: phonetically

    I didn't go in depth on your text... but I always find it interesting, when someone complains about other people's lack of spelling abilities and makes this a point, and then has some errors in their own writings
    mirror mirror on the wall.
    This example was supposed to be ironic. Note the two examples that follow it. He does make other, actual errors in his post, but that's not really pertinent to the point he's making.



    Quote Originally Posted by BraddyPoniTaku View Post
    Because while I will admit that it urks me that certain people can't use proper pronunciation (capitals, full stops, comma's and the like) when generally talking online and such, some of those same people can/will use it when they properly need to like in a resume or an e-mail or something like it.
    This is actually what bothers me the most. We are on a forum, a venue for communication. If you can write correctly but don't, you are essentially saying that you value your time over the time of the people who will read your post. You have the option to write something that is readable and comprehensible, and you are choosing to save time by not doing so. The people who suffer are the people who are reading what you're saying. That is really discourteous. Don't expect me to value your opinion if you've chosen to make it difficult to understand your opinion. (I actually met on a forum, once, a relatively learned person who did not capitalize anything because when she was writing academically, Word would autocorrect for all of her capitalization needs. I don't know how I feel about this. I don't think lack of capitalization really impairs readability, but capitalization is nice and doesn't slow you down too much.)

    The case is different, I think, with people who do genuinely lack the ability. I am probably less generous about this than others. There is a lot that you should be able to emulate. Capitalization, period use, and paragraph breaks - which a whole lot of posts on this forum lack - are something that I think everyone can work towards if they are reading others' posts. If a learning disability prevents someone from doing this, that is an exception.

    What it boils down to is the effort someone puts into a post. Most people are capable of effective communication (or of learning to communicate effectively, to some extent). If you don't put effort into making your post understandable, there is no reason for me to put effort into understanding your post. If you want to be heard, say it in a way that makes it easy to be heard. It's just reciprocal.


    As for whether improper grammar leads me to invalidate people's contributions in esoteric subjects... I would say, not really. I usually read the post anyway and would respond to it based on content. There may be some expectation that the content will be not as good, but I don't think that expectation could even be considered an "assumption." I don't know - maybe I should assume. I haven't really looked for patterns.

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