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Thread: The State of Israel.

  1. #1

    Default The State of Israel.

    I have a question that is somewhat controversial.

    I overheard a conversation yesterday between two people discussing whether or not the State of Israel legally should exist, or should legally have been formed.

    What does everyone here think? It's not something I've given much thought to before, and as such I don't have a strong opinion on the matter, however listening to the discussion did cause me to think about it.

    I'm asking only about the legality of the fact that the state of Israel came into existence, not have all it's post formation activities been legal, or even moral.

    What are your thoughts?

    My personal viewpoint is that while I do not have to support everything Israel does as a nation, I most definitely support Israelís right to exist.

  2. #2

    Default

    If a major portion of the world says "here, have some land," I'm fairly sure that makes it legal when it comes to country-forming.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The State of Israel.

    Israel has always been under control by so many different countries and people. Its capital Jerusalem has always been fought over for centuries. Christians, Jews, Muslims, kings and queens once ruled Israel. The State of Israel has been in effect since the late 1940s if I can remember correctly. Its currently under Jewish rule I believe.

    Israel has been foughten over for Meliniums.

    If people could just live with their different beliefs without warfare, this wouldn't be an issue. Religion is the main reason for all the turmoil because of "sacred land". It will always be for religious reasons.

  4. #4

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Coodie View Post
    I'm asking only about the legality of the fact that the state of Israel came into existence, not have all it's post formation activities been legal, or even moral.

    What are your thoughts?
    I'm not a lawyer, and especially not a scholar of international law, but I've read a reasonable amount of history and no country in the world came into being in what today we would consider to be 100% just and legal means. The UN partition plan for Mandate Palestine (every word there apart form "for" has a great deal that could be said about it) established the State of Israel, and a state for Palestinian Arabs - I think that's about as legal as these things ever get. The borders mandated at the time where not the borders that were established after the Israeli war of independence, so the size and shape of Israel has been a legally fraught question ever since.

    The truth is that every country in the world has a story similar to Israel's in it's past, it's just that these are buried in history. It's because Israel is a relatively recently created state that it's process of formation is still argued over, that and the history of the Jewish diaspora and pan-Arab / Muslim solidarity made it's story well known across the world.

  5. #5

    Default

    It was legal, I'd say, but that doesn't change the fact that it was one of the dumbest ideas in the past century.

  6. #6

    Default

    Years ago there was a comedian, I wish I could remember who, who suggested that we should have taken Mississippi and created Israel there. It would have been an improvement, according to the comedian.

    One only has to look at the United States and remember who we took all this land from, without their consent.

  7. #7

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by MeTaLMaNN1983 View Post
    Israel has always been under control by so many different countries and people. Its capital Jerusalem has always been fought over for centuries. Christians, Jews, Muslims, kings and queens once ruled Israel. The State of Israel has been in effect since the late 1940s if I can remember correctly. Its currently under Jewish rule I believe.

    Israel has been foughten over for Meliniums.

    If people could just live with their different beliefs without warfare, this wouldn't be an issue. Religion is the main reason for all the turmoil because of "sacred land". It will always be for religious reasons.
    Fun story: before the beginning of the story of the country we call Israel, back when it was called Palestine, lots of Jews lived there. And not only were there Jews there, but they got along well with the Palestinians. All the shit we see today began when Jordan, Syria, and Egypt invaded to drive the Jews out- and somehow the Jews won a war that was essentially peasants vs actual militaries.

    Back before outside forces began interfering to make an Arab state or a Jewish state, the people there did just fine.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The State of Israel.



    Quote Originally Posted by AEsahaettr View Post
    Fun story: before the beginning of the story of the country we call Israel, back when it was called Palestine, lots of Jews lived there. And not only were there Jews there, but they got along well with the Palestinians. All the shit we see today began when Jordan, Syria, and Egypt invaded to drive the Jews out- and somehow the Jews won a war that was essentially peasants vs actual militaries.

    Back before outside forces began interfering to make an Arab state or a Jewish state, the people there did just fine.
    I wish people would just accept what is and move on. It doesn't have to belong to one group of people.

  9. #9

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by MeTaLMaNN1983 View Post
    I wish people would just accept what is and move on.
    So I come over to your house, kick you out, and proceed to live in it. You're cool?

  10. #10

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
    Years ago there was a comedian, I wish I could remember who, who suggested that we should have taken Mississippi and created Israel there. It would have been an improvement, according to the comedian.

    One only has to look at the United States and remember who we took all this land from, without their consent.
    Back in 1903 Joseph Chamberlain suggested that the Zionist organisation could build a small Jewish territory under British protection in Uganda, and he wasn't kidding - but then Joe Chamberlain was in some ways a 19th century British version of Newt Gingrich, he had a tendency to come up with ideas like that.

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