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Thread: A Black President and Gay Marriage bans. All in one day!

  1. #1

    Default A Black President and Gay Marriage bans. All in one day!

    So, it would seem that yesterday (ironically enough, the day that the first black president of the United States is elected) several states passed referendums regarding bans on gay marriage.

    Florida passed their "2 Define Marriage" measure 62%-38% -- not even close.
    Arizona passed their "Define Marriage" measure 56%-44%.
    California, it now seems likely, will pass proposition 8 (currently 52%-48% with 95% reporting).

    So. I have to say that I'm not exactly the biggest defender of gay rights, but I think it's a little extreme to amend the constitution. I mean, damn. I'm surprised Florida passed by such a wide margin, and that California will pass it at all.

    What do you think it says about the nation in terms of tolerance and "progress"? On one hand, you have the first ever black president elected. On the other hand, 2/3 states passing such measures voted for Obama. From what I read, in CA, prop 8 had heavy support from blacks and latinos (but lost out slightly with white voters). So what to make of that?

    And also, Arkansas passed a measure allowing only married couples to adopt children, which was largely motivated by people who wanted to stop gays from adopting (by proxy, as they can't be married).

    I personally have never known quite what to make of gay marriage -- on one hand, my religion says it's wrong. On the other, I've never had a real problem with gays. And, even if you believe it's wrong, hell.. nobody's perfect. One of my biggest concerns, though, is that it seems like something that doesn't belong in a constitution. The US constitution is all about granting rights, rather than restricting to whom they apply. And even though I haven't read many state constitutions, it seems a little over the top to me, to put this in there.

    Of course, in CA, it's really the only way to make gay marriage illegal again after the previous ban was ruled unconstitutional. I suspect if it does pass, and it seems it will, there will be legal challenges to it.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by chevre View Post
    So, it would seem that yesterday (ironically enough, the day that the first black president of the United States is elected) several states passed referendums regarding bans on gay marriage.

    Florida passed their "2 Define Marriage" measure 62%-38% -- not even close.
    Arizona passed their "Define Marriage" measure 56%-44%.
    California, it now seems likely, will pass proposition 8 (currently 52%-48% with 95% reporting).

    So. I have to say that I'm not exactly the biggest defender of gay rights, but I think it's a little extreme to amend the constitution. I mean, damn. I'm surprised Florida passed by such a wide margin, and that California will pass it at all.

    What do you think it says about the nation in terms of tolerance and "progress"? On one hand, you have the first ever black president elected. On the other hand, 2/3 states passing such measures voted for Obama. From what I read, in CA, prop 8 had heavy support from blacks and latinos (but lost out slightly with white voters). So what to make of that?

    And also, Arkansas passed a measure allowing only married couples to adopt children, which was largely motivated by people who wanted to stop gays from adopting (by proxy, as they can't be married).

    I personally have never known quite what to make of gay marriage -- on one hand, my religion says it's wrong. On the other, I've never had a real problem with gays. And, even if you believe it's wrong, hell.. nobody's perfect. One of my biggest concerns, though, is that it seems like something that doesn't belong in a constitution. The US constitution is all about granting rights, rather than restricting to whom they apply. And even though I haven't read many state constitutions, it seems a little over the top to me, to put this in there.

    Of course, in CA, it's really the only way to make gay marriage illegal again after the previous ban was ruled unconstitutional. I suspect if it does pass, and it seems it will, there will be legal challenges to it.

    Thoughts?
    We as a nation are tolerant of everything. We are not persecuting homosexuals, we still let the KKK hold rally's due to freedom of speech even if that means hate speech, we elected a "black" guy as president. Of course we can be more tolerant by letting letting gay people get married, or by letting the KKK doing what I bet they really want to do which is most likely kill Obama and by letting anyone born outside of this country run for US president. my point is there will ALWAYS be a line where tolerance stops. Like the KKK can have their rallys yet we are not going to let them go out and burn crosses on non-whites lawns or hurt anyone.

  3. #3

    Default

    But you see, KKK killing black people harms people. Who does this harm? What is your rationale for drawing the line here?

  4. #4

    Default

    To me it harms what marriage is which to my knowledge started out as a religious event, if that's the case then faiths/churches have every right to deny who and who can not get married.. Like I said before wasn't marriage founded out of religion? If it was why is it a legal contract now if there's a separation of church and state? Also as I said before it would be better if all marriages were now known only as civil unions. It will keep everybody happy.

    and again California offers civil unions to same sex people and it extends the exact same rights as a marriage license does.

  5. #5

    Default

    Just because CA legalizes gay marriage doesn't mean churches have to recognize it, perform gay ceremonies, etc.

  6. #6

    Default

    It didn't pass in Florida because we have a large amount of evangelical christians.

  7. #7

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    I somewhat agree with Fire on this whole mess. >.>

    Take "marriage" out of legal stuff, and just give everyone civil unions - the word seems to be what everyone's getting to riled up about.
    ...
    Hopefully.

  8. #8

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire2box View Post
    To me it harms what marriage is which to my knowledge started out as a religious event, if that's the case then faiths/churches have every right to deny who and who can not get married.. Like I said before wasn't marriage founded out of religion? If it was why is it a legal contract now if there's a separation of church and state? Also as I said before it would be better if all marriages were now known only as civil unions. It will keep everybody happy.

    and again California offers civil unions to same sex people and it extends the exact same rights as a marriage license does.
    Though I think Proposition 8 is disgusting, I think that's a pretty good idea! It gives everyone the same rights while protecting marriage at the same time. Everyone wins, right?



    Quote Originally Posted by chevre View Post
    And also, Arkansas passed a measure allowing only married couples to adopt children, which was largely motivated by people who wanted to stop gays from adopting (by proxy, as they can't be married).
    That is just wrong. Why don't they think about the kids? They're ruining lives by preventing people from adopting! Those kids need homes! The fact that it prevents singles from adopting just makes it even worse!

  9. #9

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by ShippoFox View Post
    That is just wrong. Why don't they think about the kids? They're ruining lives by preventing people from adopting! Those kids need homes! The fact that it prevents singles from adopting just makes it even worse!
    Think of the children, though! It would be much better for them to stay in adoption homes as opposed to being raised by a loving parent, or loving parents who happen to be the same gender, right?
    ...
    Oh, wait. :/

  10. #10
    Darkfinn

    Default

    It really shocks me that California would go so heavily to the Democrats yet ban gay marriage.

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