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Thread: Questions for my materialist and evolutionist friends.

  1. #1

    Default Questions for my materialist and evolutionist friends.

    There have been a lot of posts and threads recently regarding atheism, God, Christianity, the bible and so forth, and they all seem to eventually at some point, touch on evolution.

    I'm starting this thread because the threads that are currently in existence, dealing with or discussing evolution, are really diverse, and although they do touch on the subject, I'd like to discuss it, in a fairly isolated and structured environment.

    I have a number of honest questions for the evolutionists and materialists among you.

    I am going to ask one question at a time, allowing adequet time to post answers, and then discuss each answer before posting the next one.

    I'm looking for honest answers, that can be discussed and analysed.

    Please try and answer them if you are able, and please try and keep on topic.



    Question 1. How did life originate?

    Evolutionist Professor Paul Davies admitted, “Nobody knows how a mixture of lifeless chemicals spontaneously organized themselves into the first living cell.” (Davies, Paul, Australian Centre for Astrobiology, Sydney, New Scientist 179(2403):32, 2003)

    Andrew Knoll, professor of biology, Harvard, said, “we don’t really know how life originated on this planet”.(Knoll, Andrew H., PBS Nova interview, How Did Life Begin? July 1, 2004)

    A minimal cell needs several hundred proteins. Even if every atom in the universe were an experiment with all the correct amino acids present for every possible molecular vibration in the supposed evolutionary age of the universe, not even one average-sized functional protein would form. So how did life with hundreds of proteins originate just by chemistry without intelligent design?

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    As an evolutionist Christian, I believe God created the first cell and he created us all in 6 days: past, present, and future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HokieABDL View Post
    As an evolutionist Christian, I believe God created the first cell and he created us all in 6 days: past, present, and future.
    But as Christian who believes in a supernatural Creator, you aren't a materialist.

    Just to clarify, by materialist, I refer to those who hold to the materialist world-view, that (roughly) there is no God or intelligent creator, and that everything ultimately came into being on it's own.

  4. #4

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    Evolution never states the origin of life. This question has zero relevance with evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroCat View Post
    Evolution never states the origin of life. This question has zero relevance with evolution.
    Evolution has no creative force whatsoever.

    I'm not saying it did. If you read the topic, you will see that it is a question for not only evolutionists but materialists as well.

    Without resorting to arguing the semantics, how does science, without resorting to God, explain or describe the origin of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coodie View Post
    Evolution has no creative force whatsoever.

    I'm not saying it did. If you read the topic, you will see that it is a question for not only evolutionists but materialists as well.

    Without resorting to arguing the semantics, how does science, without resorting to God, explain or describe the origin of life.
    Science doesn't. Science has a theory that says life came on Earth due to an comet (or asteroid, I can't remember) crashed into the planet that carried the cells of life. This means those cells exist elsewhere. Other than that, science really hasn't explained where life, as a whole, have come from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coodie View Post
    Evolution has no creative force whatsoever.

    I'm not saying it did. If you read the topic, you will see that it is a question for not only evolutionists but materialists as well.

    Without resorting to arguing the semantics, how does science, without resorting to God, explain or describe the origin of life.
    This isn't the first time I've linked you to the Wikipedia page on abiogenesis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroCat View Post
    Science doesn't. Science has a theory that says life came on Earth due to an comet (or asteroid, I can't remember) crashed into the planet that carried the cells of life. This means those cells exist elsewhere. Other than that, science really hasn't explained where life, as a whole, have come from.
    Exogenesis and/or panspermia. There are better theories/hypotheses out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AEsahaettr View Post
    Exogenesis and/or panspermia. There are better theories/hypotheses out there.
    Man, I need to start learning about theories I never hear about unless I watch Discovery channel. So there's those two as well. Totally forgot about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuroCat View Post
    Science doesn't. Science has a theory that says life came on Earth due to an comet (or asteroid, I can't remember) crashed into the planet that carried the cells of life. This means those cells exist elsewhere. Other than that, science really hasn't explained where life, as a whole, have come from.
    So it's your belief that life came to earth via a comet?

    This 'theory' doesn't explain how life originated, or where it ultimately came from.

    How did 'the cells of life' arise or come to exist on that comet. You still have not provided any plausible explanation for the origin of life.

    Does anyone else believe that this is what happened?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AEsahaettr View Post
    This isn't the first time I've linked you to the Wikipedia page on abiogenesis.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exogenesis and/or panspermia. There are better theories/hypotheses out there.
    There are many links to a zillion different theories out there. The article on abiogenesis on Wikipedia contains quite a few different conflicting models. Which one do you believe is the correct one? What I'm looking for is what you personally believe to have happened, and why, in a nutshell. I'm looking for a discussion, not a critique of Wikipedia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coodie View Post
    Andrew Knoll, professor of biology, Harvard, said, “we don’t really know how life originated on this planet”.[I](Knoll, Andrew H., PBS Nova interview, How Did Life Begin? July 1, 2004)
    The issue here is that our knowledge of life prior to written history is largely based on geological evidence. Life is thought to have originated billions of years ago. Once Pangaea cycle lasts a few hundred million years. Ergo, geological evidence only goes back so far. We know so much about the history of life overall because complex life only took off in the current cycle. As an aside, there's an ongoing coffee table debate over whether complex life could have evolved during previous Pangaea cycles for which no evidence exists as all the evidence would have been destroyed. But this is something that will likely never go beyond idle discourse.

    In any case, we don't know precisely how life emerged. We can make inferences and educated guesses. But here's the bigger question: do we need to know? While having a definitive answer would be very interesting, many branches of biology wouldn't be very different for it. I'm in biomed; how platelets react to different agonists and antagonists won't be any different if one theory is true over a different one. Many theories are plausible, and while all are unlikely to have occurred under random chance, time is the great equalizer. Many theories/hypotheses on how life first arose peg an estimate of when this occurred with a window hundreds of millions or even more than a billion years wide. I don't know how life arose, but there are many plausible explanations with good reasoning and evidence put forth by people who understand the topic much better than I do. Good enough for me.

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