View Poll Results: How old is the Earth?

Voters
232. You may not vote on this poll
  • 6,000 years. I am a Young Earth Creationist. I defer solely to the Bible

    11 4.74%
  • Older than 6,000 years. I am a Creationist, but Genesis has a figurative timeline.

    25 10.78%
  • Ancient. I believe in an activist God that takes an active role, but the Earth is very old.

    26 11.21%
  • 4.5 Billion years. God exists, but is primarily a science god and not a religious sort of god.

    49 21.12%
  • 4.5 Billion Years. I am an atheist and believe in facts that can be detected and measured.

    121 52.16%
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Thread: In YOUR belief, how old is the Earth?

  1. #1
    Butterfly Mage

    Default In YOUR belief, how old is the Earth?

    So... I was called all kinds of names by a fundamentalist lately because I believe in science and therefore don't think the Earth is less than 6,000 years old. I was even challenged to a public dialogue. So given that I'm someone who never passes up an opportunity to show up science as superior to creationism, I rise to the challenge.

    But I'm not a bigot. I won't call people names if they don't believe in science. I simply do believe in science.

    Here are reasons why I think the Earth is older than 6,000 years old:

    Age of the Earth, 4.5 billion years old: How Old is the Earth: Scientific Age of the Earth

    Age of the Grand Canyon, 2 billion years old: Grand Canyon National Park - Frequently Asked Questions (U.S. National Park Service)

    Triceritops skull found, 67 million years old: 03.06.2006 - Smallest Triceratops skull described

    Oldest human skull found, 160,000 years old: Dawn of human race uncovered - life - 11 June 2003 - New Scientist

    That list only took me five minutes to research on the Internet. But any High School science teacher can tell you a few other things that don't make sense about Creation story in the Bible:
    1. The human race would have died out from inbreeding if Adam and Eve were the first two humans and were the only humans on Earth at that time.
    2. There is ZERO evidence that an Extinction Level Event occurred that matches up with the Great Flood (granted, several cultures have holy texts that mention a deluge, but the whole world never flooded everywhere at the same time, and certainly not for 40 days).
    3. Snakes do not talk.
    4. Shrubs do not talk.
    5. Donkeys do not talk.
    6. Walls do not self-graffiti.
    7. The Earth is also not flat.
    8. The sky is not a hemispherical dome.
    9. There is no such thing as an "unclean" animal (although some are not good to eat, and some produce poison or venom).
    10. A woman is not more "unclean" after giving birth to a baby girl than if she gives birth to a baby boy.
    11. Once someone is dead for more than 8 minutes, they generally remain dead.
    12. Homosexuality occurs in nature.
    13. Prayers don't cure diseases, medicine does.
    14. You can't fit the entire ecology of the Earth into a single cargo ship.
    15. Human males aren't missing ribs.


    I'm happy to hear reasons why someone might think that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. I promise not to call anyone any bad names. If you believe in something else entirely, I'm happy to hear what that is too.

    My own belief is this: We live in a universe that is regulated by physical laws. The universe is very large and very old. There may be other universes as well. I think there is a Higher Power, but that entity is not the highly limited, vengeful, psychopath of the Old Testament. I think that the universal deity primarily has a "hands off" policy and may occasionally nudge evolution in one direction or another -- but that's about it. I think that the universal deity is interested in the universe being filled with life, but is distinctly uninterested in what shoes we buy, who we sleep with, or who we vote for, or how (or even if) that entity is worshiped or affirmed.

  2. #2

    Default

    Message, since I can't send you two rep in a row.

    Ignore my comment about venomous/poisonous. You used poisonous correctly, it took me a minute to realize you probably were referring to people eating certain types of protein. When I see people talking about animals being poisonous, I knee-jerk to the poisonous/venomous dichotomy.

    </threadjack>

  3. #3
    Butterfly Mage

    Default

    I modified it to cover all the bases. I'm not actually a biologist.

  4. #4
    littlepacifiergirl

    Default

    Humans have always looked for answers and science and religion are two ways to approach the subject of answering questions. The difference is that in religion we collect information and we hypothesize, in science however we collect information, hypothesize, and create an an experiment to test the hypothesis. To this end religion was a great way to provide answers to our questions at one time, but it's now grown outdated.

    Science is based on theory, meaning not that ideas are wrong just that they are not absolute and if a better theory comes along then that one would be the accepted one. Everything in religion however is absolute and infallible which makes it so there is absolutely no use arguing with a religious person. For example if you believe the story of Noah's Arc then you must also believe that he somehow managed to get the millions of species of animals collected into one boat. There are thousands of biologists in this world that search exclusively for new animal species and we find hundreds of new ones every year, yet you would have me believe that one man was capable of gathering all of them and redistribute them across the world? Sorry but if you're going to believe in something like that then I can't argue with you because clearly you lack critical thinking.

    And if you believe homosexuality is wrong because it's found in the bible, and that the bible is infallible, then you must also follow every other direction ever given in the bible. One verse in the Bible says that you should stone to death anybody that works on a Sunday or who doesn't come to church. If the bible is infallible then you can't pick and choose what to believe based on you're ignorant beliefs, you have to follow them all.

    Also I'm sorry if this post offends anybody, it is my opinion that most religious people are good people but there are some that use religion to fuel their hate and that's wrong.

  5. #5
    Elias

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by littlepacifiergirl View Post
    If the bible is infallible then you can't pick and choose what to believe based on you're ignorant beliefs, you have to follow them all.
    I have always thought this exact thought, but never have known how to phrase it. I basically love you right now. I will be stealing this quote in science/religion arguments in the future!

    But in response to the initial question, I agree that the Earth is likely much older than 6,000 years. My favorite go-to argument is the geology. You already brought up the grand canyon, but also the nearly identical geologies and animal remains on the northwest coast of Africa and the northeast coast of South America. Those continents were very likely, at one time, together. I know I can't prove it, but I don't believe that continental drift could possibly spread the continents as far apart as they are in 6,000 short years, given that enough time had to have already passed to give Africa and South America the same geological makeup.

  6. #6
    SarahNuk

    Default

    I have one comment about your originial post, just for the sake of curiosity. If you desired to know people's stances, then gave a minimum of four reasons why they are, at least it seems intended to prove that they are, wrong. The entire concept seems outrageously biased, and I'm not affiliated with any form of religion. Now, had you let a discussion begin and then brought up your points, I wouldn't say this. I merely point this out as it seems rather unlikely that you will receive any votes for the 6,000 options.

    I'm not defending anyone, I'm merely stating the flaw in the poll. If you were to host a caucus or primary, then bring up a candidate's dirty laundry as your opening speech, how can you expect to receive any sort of results that aren't affected by your statements? It's like starting a boxing match by hitting your opponent with a car. You've left no room for a debate, if one were to arise. I apologize if I'm taking this the wrong way, but this is my reactions upon viewing the post.

    That being said, I am a believer of 4.5 billion.

    Sarah

  7. #7

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly Mage View Post
    3. Snakes do not talk.
    4. Shrubs do not talk.
    5. Donkeys do not talk.
    6. Walls do not self-graffiti.
    11. Once someone is dead for more than 8 minutes, they generally remain dead.
    13. Prayers don't cure diseases, medicine does.
    My beliefs: All of this is from the work of the Lord and Satan. Although the Lord has a lot more power than Satan, Satan still has a lot of power himself (e.g., talking through the snake). If God wants something done, He doesn't even have to snap His fingers to make it happen (e.g., rising his Son from the dead, talking through the bush).

    I do have to agree with you on numbers 7, 12, 14, and 15, though. I believe in science and I believe in Christianity, crazy as it may sound. But God has the power to overrule science, and even change science if He so pleases.

  8. #8
    Butterfly Mage

    Default

    I think my poll was pretty fair. I gave "6,000" years, two types of "old" and two types of "very old". I'm not sure what other options I could have included.

  9. #9
    DrunknFox

    Default

    4.6(ish) billion years old.
    Religion or not, science has it's strong points. I'm not atheist, but the only thing keeping religion alive is the belief man can keep passing word along for 2 thousand years.

  10. #10

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by littlepacifiergirl View Post
    And if you believe homosexuality is wrong because it's found in the bible, and that the bible is infallible, then you must also follow every other direction ever given in the bible. One verse in the Bible says that you should stone to death anybody that works on a Sunday or who doesn't come to church. If the bible is infallible then you can't pick and choose what to believe based on you're ignorant beliefs, you have to follow them all.
    I couldn't agree more. Once you start picking and choosing which bits of the Bible you think are relevant, you're guilty of creating God in your own image. Who are YOU to interpret the Revealed Word of God? And if it isn't ENTIRELY the Revealed Word of God, then how can you credit any of it with absolute moral authority?

    But in response to the question - several billion years at least. If this contradicts the Bible, so what? Why should we side with the Bible when there is a conflict between it and what we observe in Nature? If God is capable of falsifying the world as a test of our faith, is he not capable of falsifying the Bible as a test of our intelligence? If God isn't playing fair, then you can't trust anything!

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