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Thread: Canadian court refuses to extradite suspected terrorist

  1. #1

    Default Canadian court refuses to extradite suspected terrorist

    I'm a bit surprised this story doesn't seem to have gathered much attention outside of Canada since I think it offers an interesting rights vs security dilemma.

    First, a bit of back-story about the family at the heart of this story: the Khadr family, a family of Egyptian-Canadian dual citizens. The family's patriarch, Ahmed Khadr, was a suspected terrorist that was killed in 2003 in a raid by the Pakistani army. Of the children, two are suspected terrorist: Omar Khadr, who has been held in Guantanamo since 2002 for the murder of a US soldier and plead guilty in 2010 (though it is widely suspect that after he returns to Canada to serve the rest of his sentence (which he has the right to do under his plea deal) he will appeal his plea deal on due process and/or coercion grounds, an appeal that most observers expect him to win). The family as a whole is known to have very close ties to Al Quaeda, though which (if any) members of the family are actual terrorist had been a matter of debate here in Canada.

    But that's just for context. The other child of the family that is a suspected terrorist, Abdullah Khadr, was recently involved in an extradition suit. In 2004, the United States government paid the Pakistani government half a million dollars to kidnap Abdullah, who was held for a period of fourteen months during which he was interrogated by US and Canadian authorities, to whom he admitted to having provided material support to Al Quaeda. During his detention he was allegedly tortured by the Pakistani authorities. After his release by Pakistan he came back to Canada where he was immediately arrested at the request of the US government and faced extradition for charges related to selling arms to Al Quaeda and training with them.

    The problem occurred when the Ontario court that heard his cased turned down the extradition request, saying that while there was more than enough evidence to extradite Khadr he could not be extradited to the United States because they violating the principle of fundamental justice by being involved in Khadr's "shocking" mistreatment during his 14-months detention in Pakistan. The judge also said that extraditing Khadr would "only serve to reward the Americans' gross misconduct" in the case.

    The judgment was upheld on appeal and today the supreme court of Canada refused to hear the government's final appeal, essentially meaning that the supreme court does not think the government has a case.

    So, now the question is: do you think that the court was right to refuse to extradite Khadr due to the fact that he was held without due process by a third party at the request of the United States, despite evidence that he provided material support to Al Quaeda? Why or why not?

    Source: Abdullah Khadr won't be extradited - Canada - CBC News

  2. #2

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    Well, Is he going to be detained in Canada or set free? What difference does it make where he is as long as he is behind bars?

    If its just a matter of who gets to keep him locked up I really dont see why it matters, As long as a terrorist is tucked away.

    If Canada does set him free then I have a problem, if he is the terrorist that this article makes him out to be then no way should someone like that be out.

  3. #3

    Default

    Of course Canada is going to set him free. The whole family comited high treason by joining the Taliban and have never been charged. I think the death penalty should be brought back just for treason. It would discorage scum like them from using Canadian citizenship to get away with murder.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orcaway View Post
    If Canada does set him free then I have a problem, if he is the terrorist that this article makes him out to be then no way should someone like that be out.
    I think the point is that he wouldn't be going free if the US hadn't directly caused him to be tortured for 14 months.

  5. #5
    BabyJayk

    Default

    Things the world needs to understand about US "torture".

    1. What the rest of the world terms as "torture" is little more than suspected terrorists being forced to listen to the Barney theme song for two days straight (yes the song is loud and annoying, but they will live, quit whining). 2. Water boarding does not cause permanent physical harm, nor is it deadly. Locking a man in a room with a Dog or showing him pork are not the single most inhumane things to ever happen.

    2. Which would you rather have, a few people subjected to aggressive interrogation that don't know anything, or thousands of Anti-Western Terrorists running around the planet? Think about it before you answer. Its a war, innocent people ARE going to be hurt. It is inevitable.

    3. Everyone needs to quit acting like America is the first country to use aggressive interrogation. I mean its not like we are ripping peoples finger nails off with pliers, or subjecting them to prison sodomy on purpose, United Kingdom. Its also not like we are talking about jerking peoples arms out of socket, and subjecting them to electric shock, Germany. Or beating people to death, Canada. I say again, its war, its messy.

    All that being said, allegations of torture don't always stop convictions in its tracks. Unless he is being tried in the continental US, with all the rights our court system provides (key phrase) then this defense will do him little good.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orcaway View Post
    Well, Is he going to be detained in Canada or set free? What difference does it make where he is as long as he is behind bars?

    If its just a matter of who gets to keep him locked up I really dont see why it matters, As long as a terrorist is tucked away.

    If Canada does set him free then I have a problem, if he is the terrorist that this article makes him out to be then no way should someone like that be out.
    It's unlikely that he will be charged in Canada, if for no other reason that the fact that he was interrogated by Canadian agents while being held in Pakistan can be interpreted as the Canadian government being complicit in what Canadian courts consider to be illegal detention. Since he was illegally detained pretty much nothing that he has said while in Pakistan or immediately after coming back to Canada will be admissible, meaning that the investigation pretty much has to start from scratch. But yes, he is free and has been free since 2010.

  7. #7

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by BabyJayk View Post
    Things the world needs to understand about US "torture".

    1. What the rest of the world terms as "torture" is little more than suspected terrorists being forced to listen to the Barney theme song for two days straight (yes the song is loud and annoying, but they will live, quit whining). 2. Water boarding does not cause permanent physical harm, nor is it deadly. Locking a man in a room with a Dog or showing him pork are not the single most inhumane things to ever happen..
    Try listening to music you hate played constantly at deafening volume for two days and nights and see what word springs to mind....



    2. Which would you rather have, a few people subjected to aggressive interrogation that don't know anything, or thousands of Anti-Western Terrorists running around the planet? Think about it before you answer. Its a war, innocent people ARE going to be hurt. It is inevitable.
    And yet after 10 years of "Enhanced Interrogation" we have both - seems like it's not such a magic bullet.



    3. Everyone needs to quit acting like America is the first country to use aggressive interrogation. I mean its not like we are ripping peoples finger nails off with pliers, or subjecting them to prison sodomy on purpose, United Kingdom. Its also not like we are talking about jerking peoples arms out of socket, and subjecting them to electric shock, Germany. Or beating people to death, Canada. I say again, its war, its messy.
    That's cause stuff like that can be farmed out to people in Pakistan or other US client states. No-one said that the USA is the first nation to engage in torture - what people are shocked by it that it's the last nation in the civilised world that can't seem to get with the program: Torture Is Wrong, and It Doesn't Work.

    And Americans wonder why they're Allies don't trust or like them....
    Last edited by Trevor; 04-Nov-2011 at 05:52. Reason: removed auto-merged duplicate post.

  8. #8
    Peachy

    Default

    So Canadian law doesn't prevent the government from extraditing their own citizens to other countries against their will? It's in the German constitution, so the best the Yanks could do here is seek prosecution in front of a German court of law under German court proceeding laws for crimes punishable under German law.

    Peachy

  9. #9

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by BabyJayk View Post
    2. Which would you rather have, a few people subjected to aggressive interrogation that don't know anything, or thousands of Anti-Western Terrorists running around the planet? Think about it before you answer. Its a war, innocent people ARE going to be hurt. It is inevitable.
    Sounds like a false choice to me, basically your saying its either "aggressive interrogation" (torture) or terrorist killing everyonez!, when realistically torture isn't stopping terrorist anymore then what the CIA was doing before the whole "enhanced interrogation" stuff.

    Lets not even get into the argument of how good the information is, or even how you determine someone doesn't know anything when they think they do. Actually lets get into the last part, so when do you stop waterboarding someone who really doesn't know shit? When does the point come that "hey, maybe we are wrong and they really don't know anything,"?

  10. #10

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by BabyJayk View Post
    Things the world needs to understand about US "torture".

    1. What the rest of the world terms as "torture" is little more than suspected terrorists being forced to listen to the Barney theme song for two days straight (yes the song is loud and annoying, but they will live, quit whining). 2. Water boarding does not cause permanent physical harm, nor is it deadly. Locking a man in a room with a Dog or showing him pork are not the single most inhumane things to ever happen.

    2. Which would you rather have, a few people subjected to aggressive interrogation that don't know anything, or thousands of Anti-Western Terrorists running around the planet? Think about it before you answer. Its a war, innocent people ARE going to be hurt. It is inevitable.

    3. Everyone needs to quit acting like America is the first country to use aggressive interrogation. I mean its not like we are ripping peoples finger nails off with pliers, or subjecting them to prison sodomy on purpose, United Kingdom. Its also not like we are talking about jerking peoples arms out of socket, and subjecting them to electric shock, Germany. Or beating people to death, Canada. I say again, its war, its messy.

    All that being said, allegations of torture don't always stop convictions in its tracks. Unless he is being tried in the continental US, with all the rights our court system provides (key phrase) then this defense will do him little good.
    Well said. I was just about to say something along these lines, but then I read this and think you summed up my thoughts on the issue probably better than I could have !

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