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Thread: Regarding My Belief System (Pagan Deism)

  1. #1

    Default Regarding My Belief System (Pagan Deism)

    Let me start off by saying, I am not religious. I am not here to change your beliefs, but I just may very well do that. Many of you know, that I reject all Abrahamic religions and thought systems (Christianity, Islam, Judaism), as well as Hinduism, and other book and faith based spiritualities.
    Many people ask me why this is... What made me "fall from grace"; The very books used as proof did. I'm not here to start a debate about why "X group is stupid" I don't intend for that, but; give me a moment here.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    Revelation, or revealed religion, is defined in Webster's New World Dictionary as: "God's disclosure to man of Himself." This should read, "God's alleged disclosure to man of himself." For unless God reveals to each of us individually that a particular religion is truly His disclosure to us of Himself, then, by believing that religion, we are not taking His word for it, but we are instead putting our belief in the person or institution telling us it is so. This is what we are doing when we believe in any revealed religion, and that's all Christianity is. It's a revealed religion like many others such as Islam and Judaism. Revealed religion gets dangerous however, when it crosses over the line into politics. This is the admitted goal of the Christian Coalition. God allegedly revealed to Pat Robertson and his Coalition, that He wants them to take over America and eventually the world with "His Word," so the laws of the nations will mirror the laws in the Bible, which, if you know what's in the Bible, is terrifying. This, too, is what the Ayatollah's goal was, only his "revealed word of God" was the Koran, an other revelation. Are we to believe Pat when he says the Bible is revelation of God's Word?
    This is a fantastic basis for my beliefs, that since we cannot directly talk to god, and he does not directly reveal himself to everyone, as the bible, koran, and the like say that these revelations cannot possibly be true. I choose to find my path to our/my greater being by direct observation, and not being told what he is. He does not want worship, he allowed us to evolve a sense of reason and right/wrong without him.

    We should use that... Not books, not churches, not fables, and not prayer.

    Morality by Reasoning, not a book:

    "If it hurts someone, it's wrong, if it doesn't hurt or it is beneficial it's good. "
    This supports, the closest spirituality to my belief system, Wicca.
    I believe that all things are connected, and that the natural laws of nature; meaning that physics, time, and evolution bind us. That what you do has a consequence both in this life and the hereafter. The Wiccan law of "Threefold Return."
    I celebrate the passing of seasons, and welcome the change they bring. (Yule especially... aka "Christmas" ... >>) Wicca also supports my transhumanisim with regard to the inter-connectivity, and relativity of everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    When you open your eyes to a cosmic perspective, something awe inspiring stays with you and you see life in a whole new way.

    Every single instance of life in this universe is an extension of you and you are an extension of it. As life, we are not as old as we often think we are.

    Science shows that heavier elements that compose everything we see today were forged within dying stars, that existed long before the earth was formed.

    If life emerged out of those components we can then understand that every living part of you is in truth older than life itself.

    Perhaps we should not only be counting your age in terms of decades, but in the billions of years. The fact that you are alive today, and that your body is literally made of star stuff, is living proof of this.

    As descendants of life, we may yet widen our perspectives of what we really are. Your essence did not appear out of thin air, but rather, it is composed of cells that have divided, evolved and multiplied over millions of years, information that has condensed under natural selection and universal processes.

    In some ways, you have not only been as you see yourself right now, but you have, in fact, experienced the past as your individual parents and even those before them, recursively. Everything that makes you could not exist otherwise.

    From this perspective, the essence that encompasses you is linked to every other entity that has ever lived, and through you and others, will also be linked to those that have yet to come.

    The implications of this argument should not be lost in its simplicity. You're not only 'linked' to are part of everything.

    Every single organism you've ever encountered or have yet to see, has a singular, common point of origin with you (the moment Science refers to as the singularity and the Big Bang).

    Since then, everything in our universe has evolved. From subatomic particles to atoms, to molecules, to stars, galaxies, planets and even life. All of this essence is you, in many ways.

    Next time you look at another human with kindness and humility in your eyes, you will see a reflection of yourself and the universe within that entity.

    Ever since the universe evolved life on this planet, an instance of us has been. The essence of everything that is you, the molecules, your cells, your skin, has changed, but it has done so for billions of years.

    Similarly to the way that you, as life, have a point of origin that did not begin in the womb, the evolution of life is but a brief cosmic step of a macro universal process. We could call this Universal Evolution, or the evolution of Information on a universal scale(a process that is not limited to biological evolution, but from which biological evolution emerged from).

    You are part of this process. From an intelligent, conscious perspective, we may have a role to play in this process like none before.

    Look around you, and you may yet realize who and what you are. Your amazing potential. To have had your essence forged inside in the hearts of stars, to have evolved hands to feel and eyes to see, ears to listen. After nearly being eradicated by meteors that wiped the dinosaurs off the face of the planet, you've had the ability to survive the toughest of ice ages, powerful droughts and dangerous moments of starvation. To have discovered fire. To form ideas about the world, becoming increasingly more aware of yourself. To have looked into the past, to reason for the future. To have created technology, to have inspired generations...In our times, through intelligence, you are exponentially becoming.

    We are surrounded by insurmountable opportunities. The Universe has found a way to reason about itself, and we are experiencing that new evolutionary step, one which does not seem to have any particular singular point of importance, but to which we can give value as sentient beings, if we choose to.

    There is much yet for us as life to find out and understand. Through reason, Science and Technology we're breaking away the shells of ignorance and the barriers that limit us from achieving our dreams.

    Where we go from here, is entirely up to us, because if we choose to, the Universe will no longer be driven by chance...but by choice

    I think that in this point in time of human evolution we can move past religion. We all have the ability to reason, God/Father/Allah/Yaweh/Jehova/Abraham/ or what ever you choose to call him allowed this ability to flourish in this universe. As such, it should be used.

    Faith in religion is a poison; that fact is infallible for one very reason:

    One one cites faith as a reason a person is good, it suggests that that person would be a bad person otherwise and requires a "Daddy" to tell them what to do. To have this, the person has not grown, and would otherwise do bad things. I have heard many people proclaim that if it were not for the hereafter and eternal judgment, they would do evil. However, these people have the ability to reason, and the ability to feel. To hurt someone else is to go against reason, humanism, and our progress of evolution.

    The only thing keeping them from doing bad things is punishment.
    Not just because they don't want to hurt someone, or because it's unfair.. Because they are scared of being punished.
    This is fear, this is coercion and how Christianity especially recruits new members if the 'love of god' fails.
    I have met fantastic Christians, I am in love with one. Even they, when I raise this point that they do not need a book, or faith in something like Yahweh, to bee good people and that they should be strong and stand on their own, I get the hell card.
    Which brings me to my next and final point: I live without fear, completely.

    Not of man, not of hell, and not of god. Our "creator" need not be feared, just as a work of art not need fear the artist. If you are a good person, and do good for your people, and the world there is no reason for negative judgment to come about you. Just as you need not fear the consequences of your reactions in the flesh. Good begets Good, they teach you that in Nursery School. You don't need a holy book tot ell you that, especially one that can be as corrupt as they writers choose to be.

    You have reason, you know what good and bad is. You develop this sense through not god, but observance, learning and education.

    I know of people who claim god delivered them from bad situations, or helped them heal. Which... I hate this... They are so undignified to themselves that they have to turn to a "big brother", which feels good... It's nice to be coddled, but it is also weak. It us undignified to claim that you didn't get yourself out of dodge on your own.
    Ultimately, it is still your choice...

    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

    -- Steven Weinberg

    That my children, is all.
    Last edited by Corri; 31-Aug-2010 at 23:47.

  2. #2
    Butterfly Mage


    Nice post!

    I am also a Wiccan. The the thing that started me on my journey away from Christianity was the act of reading the Bible front to back. Basically, my own concept of Deity did not include owning slaves, selling one's children, killing one's children, killing "idolators" and homosexuals. Granted, the number of Christians who would do such things is a very small percentage. But that doesn't change the fact that the Bible *allows* such behavior.*

    I began to ask this question: "how can it be that the average human being is more moral than the God of the Bible?". Of course, the answer (at least my answer) is that the Bible is a boom written by men and that book does not accurately represent Deity.*

    I embraced Wicca because that religion's concept of Deity seems to match how the universe actually works. Life comes in cycles; the real definition of sin is harming someone on purpose (not that Wiccans use the word "sin"); men and women are considered equally loved by Deity; that we are part of the ecology; that sex is sacred, not dirty.*

    There's a beauty and dignity in Wicca that I experienced in Christianity. It is not the "one true faith", since there is no such thing. But it is a spiritual path that I am blessed to have found.*

    Blessed be

  3. #3

  4. #4


    Quote Originally Posted by Corri View Post
    "...... for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

    -- Steven Weinberg
    or law.
    while i agree with your concept/relationship of/with god, i feel it's worth pointing out that the concepts with most people have been indoctrinated are much of a pop-culturism or child-friendly instructive tool. that is, they are easier to teach, learn and relate to in the most of situations; true study or contemplation of god tends to be the preserve of those who can devote time and find reason away from daily life (monks and nuns, mainly). not that one can't think about such things in the course of normal life, but there are a great many reasons why it's not done and as to how and why the teaching concepts with which we're familiar were developed.
    with that, while there are many truths in the common perceptions of established relgions, there is also a lot of misperception.

    at their hearts, each religion has it's place in whichever order it was developed and exists, so i don't think it's right to dismiss, or even condemn, them on the basis that one has only been fed a prescribed, political notion of a faith, a god and nature (no matter how true the untruth is), as all perceptions are coloured by the light in which they bathe.

  5. #5


    I am also a Pagan Deist, raised Baptist, and I'll toast to what both Corri and Butterfly Mage said.

  6. #6


    i believe in god but after that dog attack 5 years ago i stopped believing that he helps

  7. #7


    Quote Originally Posted by karek View Post
    i believe in god but after that dog attack 5 years ago i stopped believing that he helps why would anything happen to a 8 year old huh
    In his toddlerhood, one of my brothers prayed for a baby sister. My parents didn't want more kids and planned on another boy when they found they were having their fourth, and instead they brought me into the world. I was premature and sickly. My health became the sole subject of my brother's prayers. He considered (or considers) me the only thing he prayed for that ever came true.

    He is currently agnostic and I mentioned my beliefs above. Oddly enough, our other brothers are Christians. Childhood events can be powerful influences in any direction, but common sense perhaps more so, at least for some people.

  8. #8


    I understand where you are coming from as i am a Christian deist.

    The bible that Christian deist use is the jefferson bible also known as the "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth"

    This basically omitting the question of his deity and removing sections of the New Testament containing supernatural events and revelations aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists.

    For a good deist forum try.
    It a open forum for all type of deist.
    POSITIVE DEISM • Search[]=23

  9. #9
    Butterfly Mage


    I think one of the things that turned me off to the idea of an "activist" deity (as proclaimed by Christianity) was reading about the Holocaust. Clearly an activist god would not let six million Jews get thrown into incinerators (along with gays and gypsies and handicapped people). Wicca, by contrast, offers a framework for a polite civilization but Goddess and God don't do the enforcing. It's up to us to bring about positive change. It's not enough to sit on our asses and pray.

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