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Thread: Thoughts on P2P(music, movies, etc) and other forms of "pirated" media

  1. #1

    Default Thoughts on P2P(music, movies, etc) and other forms of "pirated" media

    Ok, since the other thread was closed due to promoting illegal content, how about a discussion on the 'ethics' of file sharing and WHY it's right or wrong please don't just say "well I think it's wrong." explain your reasoning.

    DO NOT LINK TO TORRENT SITES OR "PROMOTE" ANYTHING "ILLEGAL" IN THIS DISCUSSION


    I personally think it is just fine to use P2P sharing, why should we pay 500-1000$ for a program you can get for free and 99.9% of the time have no repercussions for? We shouldn't have to pay a ton of money for music and movies just so the money can drain back into the pockets of the corporations just so we can line their pockets with more cash. I pay 20$ USD per person when I go to the movie theatres now, I can get the same movie in high quality for free on the internet without having to waste all of my money for something I will see ONCE. I will admit to it, I rent DvDs and then rip them and save them as .avi files on my computer and returning the movie the next day, I spend 4$ on a rental and I can get a movie that I can have until I decide to delete it and I find no moral problem with doing this at all. Why should our money be given to greedy men monopolizing on OTHER PEOPLES work, I would have no problem paying if the profit went directly to the artist, but it doesn't.

    I have more to say on this but, I want to hear other peoples opinions.

  2. #2

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    I am 100% fine with pirated media. I'd be a hypocrite if I was not.

    To me its just not worth the money for most programs I run (Adobe software, Microsoft software, etc). Hundreds of dollars a piece for most quality software, made by millionaire corporations that'll make all the money back (and then some) by other corporations who'll buy the licensing for it (because they can afford it).

    How will me, a single person who uses, say Adobe Photoshop, for fun on occasion - put the designer bankrupt? I won't.

    Music, I am a bit different for. I agree its okay to pirate music, but I am one who will always buy the music I thoroughly enjoy after a few listens from the album. If it wasn't for pirating, I'm sure a lot of new bands these days wouldn't be nearly as popular as they are today.

    As for movies... I'll pay money to see a certain few movies in theaters because some movies deserve to be seen on a huge screen with loud speakers.

    Regarding music and movies... most of that media actually is not worth paying for anyway. And like I said... if it IS worth paying for, I'll buy the DVD or see it in theaters again, or buy the CD.

  3. #3

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    It's like a free rider problem. If I was to download music and films illegally, the effect on the companies would be so tiny, it wouldn't matter. But if nobody bought CDs or DVDs (or went to the cinema) then the companies would go out of business.
    So is it right to 'free ride' in this way, taking stuff for free knowing that it won't damage anything because someone else is paying for it? I personally feel that bands should do something like Radiohead's "Pay what you want". You could download there album for free if you wanted, or you could pay what you thought it was worth. That's a much better way of doing things. (Would never happen though.)

    I think one problem is that we feel we should have all these things. We think that should have these computer programs, and all this music. But we can't afford it, so we steal it! I think the problem is with our thinking that we are somehow owed all these things... Like how people get into debt, living lifestyles they can't afford, but live anyway because they think they should be able to.

    I used to download some music illegally when I was younger, but that was because you needed a debit card to buy online. And my town sucks for music (we don't even have a music shop!). But now I always use Itunes to download stuff, or just buy albums when I go out of town. As for films, I like to see movies at the cinema! And I rent DVDs.

    If something is worth listening too, watching, or using... then it's worth paying for. Anything else I wouldn't want in the first place.

    As for the old "I download just to sample it"... Sample music for free on a band's myspace, or listen to the radio.
    And you can't sample a film... Read a review.

    I never realised I cared about this... I thought I was okay with it. Well, I guess not! I think that music/film companies are making a lot of money, but that doesn't give us the right to steal from them. The stuff is over-priced though...

  4. #4

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    Hmmm, pirating music is illegal, but from what I've heard, no one really cares all that much.

  5. #5
    EmeraldsAndLime

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen View Post
    I personally think it is just fine to use P2P sharing, why should we pay 500-1000$ for a program you can get for free and 99.9% of the time have no repercussions for? We shouldn't have to pay a ton of money for music and movies just so the money can drain back into the pockets of the corporations just so we can line their pockets with more cash. I pay 20$ USD per person when I go to the movie theatres now, I can get the same movie in high quality for free on the internet without having to waste all of my money for something I will see ONCE. I will admit to it, I rent DvDs and then rip them and save them as .avi files on my computer and returning the movie the next day, I spend 4$ on a rental and I can get a movie that I can have until I decide to delete it and I find no moral problem with doing this at all. Why should our money be given to greedy men monopolizing on OTHER PEOPLES work, I would have no problem paying if the profit went directly to the artist, but it doesn't.
    Corporations wouldn't continue to make products if there was no profit in them. Like what you've alluded to, there are still people out there who pay for media.

    I, for one, still go to the movies (although they are relatively cheap here - AU$5), I still purchase CDs (AU$10-AU$30) and I sometimes buy DVDs (AU$10-AU$40). Why? Because I enjoy that media. Even though I like to "support the artists", it still hurts me to think that a lot of my money is going to the head of those corporations and not the person producing the music/film. In the case of musicians, it's why bands *have* to tour. Because living off records sales alone just isn't enough, unless they have a library of hits under their belt.

    Like I said, I'm all for buying the merchandise, but I also for downloading albums, films, games and even software. There are quite a few reasons why.

    1. I'm a student who works a lacklustre job. My parents make me pay for everything I need or want, not to mention a few expenses for still living at home, when I am studying I have to pay for my own textbooks and travel expenses and, to top it off, I am saving for a big holiday. I just simply don't have the resources to fund movies, games, or music on a regular basis. There is a lot I wish to own, but I simply can't because other things take priority over something that I don't exactly need.

    2. Where is the money going? There is an outlet from which I can retrieve games, music and films for free - however, the drawback is, is that it's considered illegal. Do I "steal", simply because I'm not in a position to afford it all? Well, in that regard it makes me feel like total scum, but like stealing a loaf of bread to feed my poor family, I can console myself over it. I justify it through the fact that if I did spend the money, it'd mostly be going to those cigar-smoking fat-cats who sit in their lavish office on the 50th floor. Whilst I'm one to consider, "Yeah, but it's only one person" - and that if everyone had that mentality, the business would go bankrupt - I also appreciate the artists themselves and I respect what they have done. I would like to see the majority of my money go to them, not the company-owners.

    3. Try before you buy. I think this is the most common reason people give when the topic of media piracy is bought up. Let's look at it from this perspective.

    I walk into a record shop to buy some band's latest CD.

    Why am I buying the CD? Because I heard the artist previously and I loved their stuff.

    How did I manage to hear their stuff previously? I either downloaded it off the internet or a friend gave me a copy of their album.

    If I had never been able to download the music, or if my friend never gave me a copy of the CD (which, by the way, is piracy unto itself!), then I would have never walked into that shop and actually bought it for myself! Record companies seem to have this obscure mentality that when they bring out a new artist, everyone, all of a sudden, has heard of them and goes off to buy their album. That couldn't be further from the truth since not everyone listens to the radio, not everyone follows all the new bands that come out (especially now, new artists appear every day it seems) and certainly not everyone finds music all that interesting.

    All I'm saying is, nowadays, if there was no way (beyond radio or word of mouth) which we could hear new artists, then record sales would plummet. No one likes to buy something, only to find they absolutely hate it. In a world of reviews, previews and mass media coverage, making a blind, uninformed purchase is becoming increasing rare. And the best way to know if you like something or not is to experience it first-hand.

    Besides, if you download an artist and you don't like them, do you keep on listening to them? No, I assume you wouldn't. So even though we have the pirated media, we aren't exactly using it anyway. We've at least saved ourselves a couple of dollars and the time of getting it.

    4. Internet piracy is the new, ultimate form of media sharing. If you want it, it's on the internet somewhere. Regardless of whether or not it's illegal, it's here to stay. It's become more big than anyone could have ever imagined. Back in the good ol' days of Napster, it was just downloading one or two songs. Then it turned into downloading whole albums. Nowadays, people download whole discographies. With the influx of all this new technology, you honestly can't say that people wouldn't have found other, more efficient uses for it.

    I personally feel media companies have jumped ship too late, or not at all. Instead of embracing this new media outlet, they preferred to shun it and continue selling their products off at high prices. Any intelligent business person would have seen, with the advent of primitive file-sharing networks, that this was going to impact the future greatly. Only now have media companies tired to integrate a business plan for online distribution, however all attempts have never really taken off. Slapping the title of "free" onto anything makes it much more appealing than the same thing with a "$10" price-tag. As I said before, online piracy has grown to be that huge that it only seems natural to prefer it over paid methods of attaining new media.

    What I do like seeing is how artists are taking the distribution of their stuff into their own hands now. Bands who release their music online for free and ask only for a "donation" for downloading their stuff. And if you contribute, then you can get the music in higher qualities. From what I've seen, people are more than willing to do this since the money is going directly to the artist. This is perhaps the future of media release, as more and more artists prefer this method over having to use medium to handle their affairs.

    At the end of the day, it all comes down to your personal opinion on the matter. Yes, at the moment it is stealing, and yes, it is illegal. But unless some drastic changes are made to the media industry, then the only two groups that survive will the be the artists and consumers. Big businesses and industry labels will continue on for a while, but if they don't stop giving the consumers a hard time, then people will simply turn and find a more viable and fair way to get what they want.

  6. #6

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    Music: If you have the money, buy it. Once you have it, you have it, you only have to spend the money once. If you don't have the money, download it until you can buy it, if you rally like it and can buy it easily.

    Movies: Pay to see it once, if you like it enough to want to see it again without paying before the DVD is released, download it, then buy the DVD. If you can't afford the DVD, just keep it downloaded ('s far as I'm concerned, once you pay to see it in the theater, you have viewing rights)

    Software: Buy it if you can afford it, download it if you can't. A lot of programs (Photoshop, Flash, etc.) seem to be priced for business use.

    Also, I do not support the selling of ANYTHING that was gained without a monetary exchange, be it music, movies, or software. If you didn't pay for it and charge someone else money for it, THAT'S criminal.

  7. #7

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    Manveru, you also made a very good point on a different thread:



    Quote Originally Posted by Manveru
    As others have said, all we're doing is stealing from thieves.

    Al; the price-gouging that the megacorps do on CDs, movies, and ESPECIALLY software is more of a crime than getting something that you want and not paying a multimillionare another fifteen to 700 dollars that he doesn't really need.

    Artists haven't gained any more money form their CDs since they broke the $10 mark, it all goes to the big suits. And if I gave half a s**t about them, maybe I'd care.

    But no..
    My stance on downloading music is this. If I want a song or an album that's really popular and was released by a major record label and the artist is making millions off of that release, then I will download it because I don't like supporting big corporations and things like that. However, a large majority of the music that I do listen to are either released on very small independent record labels or records labels that aren't in it for the money, but for the music. They are the kind of people who I support by purchasing their music. I feel guilty downloading their songs for free, but I don't feel very guilty if I download a song from some super rich popular millionaire artist.
    Last edited by Kams; 16-Apr-2008 at 22:36.

  8. #8

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    I dont mined stealing from rich companies ex: Microsoft, Apple, Warner Brothers, Activision... ECT.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukie View Post
    4. Internet piracy is the new, ultimate form of media sharing. If you want it, it's on the internet somewhere. Regardless of whether or not it's illegal, it's here to stay. It's become more big than anyone could have ever imagined. Back in the good ol' days of Napster, it was just downloading one or two songs. Then it turned into downloading whole albums. Nowadays, people download whole discographies. With the influx of all this new technology, you honestly can't say that people wouldn't have found other, more efficient uses for it.

    I personally feel media companies have jumped ship too late, or not at all. Instead of embracing this new media outlet, they preferred to shun it and continue selling their products off at high prices. Any intelligent business person would have seen, with the advent of primitive file-sharing networks, that this was going to impact the future greatly. Only now have media companies tired to integrate a business plan for online distribution, however all attempts have never really taken off. Slapping the title of "free" onto anything makes it much more appealing than the same thing with a "$10" price-tag. As I said before, online piracy has grown to be that huge that it only seems natural to prefer it over paid methods of attaining new media.
    this is the bottom line as far as i'm concerned. we can debate ethics until the cows come home, but the undeniable fact of the matter is that nowadays people obtain their music by trading or downloading. the CD is probably an obsolete technology; certainly the recording industry won't be around for more than another 5 years or so.

    in the future, bands will make money by touring, by selling adspace on their websites, and probably by means we haven't even thought of yet. from what i can see, the long-term effects of file sharing are going to be almost 100% positive: it's going to take creative control out of the hands of major corporations and put it back into the hands of the artists, where it belongs.

    the only negative impact i can foresee is that perhaps there will come a time when music is no longer released in the form of albums. i think that'd be kind of a shame.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie F View Post
    It's like a free rider problem. If I was to download music and films illegally, the effect on the companies would be so tiny, it wouldn't matter. But if nobody bought CDs or DVDs (or went to the cinema) then the companies would go out of business.
    So is it right to 'free ride' in this way, taking stuff for free knowing that it won't damage anything because someone else is paying for it? I personally feel that bands should do something like Radiohead's "Pay what you want". You could download there album for free if you wanted, or you could pay what you thought it was worth. That's a much better way of doing things. (Would never happen though.)

    I think one problem is that we feel we should have all these things. We think that should have these computer programs, and all this music. But we can't afford it, so we steal it! I think the problem is with our thinking that we are somehow owed all these things... Like how people get into debt, living lifestyles they can't afford, but live anyway because they think they should be able to.
    Yes Charlies you are right if too many people start doing this the record labels will go bankrupt. Not only that but music artists, actors/actresses, producers, editors, recorders and so many more people would be out of the job! For as filthy rich those people are, believe it or not we do need them. Well not need them, but life would be a lot more boring without them.

    Also yes I agree one of the problems is that people are starting to want, want, and want some more all for themselfs. This is called narcassisim, when someone is very needy and mostly thinks of ways of benefiting themselfs in anyways possible, as if the world revolves around them. The main thing that has caused this is technology and luxuries spoiling us to the point that it makes us want it all, similar like an addiction. Oh well what can ya do about it? The most you can do is regulate your own morals and actions.

    As for me I had napster when it was out, I had Kazaa when it was out, but after Kazaa was gone I gave up on all that illegal downloading. After having those programs for a year or two they always made my computer really sick. At least thats where I think it has come from, I have not had an illegal software like that in several years and have not had problems with my computer at all since then. So overall I do not think this type of software should be avaliable.

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