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Thread: Morals and ethics-good or bad?

  1. #1

    Default Morals and ethics-good or bad?

    I'm just wondering what other people on here think of morals, ethics, animal rights and to some extent human rights. Personally i hate nearly everything about all of them, morals, ethics and human rights in particular slow down the progress of everything, science in particular, and make running businesses more costly. While animal rights seem to exist for no other reason than to complicate life for those of us who see animals as things created to for the sole purpose of servitude.

  2. #2

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    Have you ever heard of considering somebody else's view point?
    You clearly hold a view similar to "every man for himself" while somebody else holds the view that everyone deserves fair and equal treatment.

    Both of you believe your own viewpoints to be correct and think the other's viewpoint stupid/horrible (depending on which side you're on.) How are you ever going to agree? The short answer is that neither of you is ever going to agree with the other, so the only solution is a compromise between the two.
    There will be those who see it as too lenient, and those who see it as too harsh - that will always happen and is unavoidable - the best we can really do is occupy the middle ground and please the majority.

  3. #3
    Butterfly Mage

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    Quote Originally Posted by teenlove View Post
    I'm just wondering what other people on here think of morals, ethics, animal rights and to some extent human rights. Personally i hate nearly everything about all of them, morals, ethics and human rights in particular slow down the progress of everything, science in particular, and make running businesses more costly. While animal rights seem to exist for no other reason than to complicate life for those of us who see animals as things created to for the sole purpose of servitude.
    Animals don't exist for the purpose of servitude. They exist for the sake of existing as part of the ecology. A scorpion does not benefit mankind, but it's got the right to be a scorpion. I find your outlook quite dangerous, frankly. It's also short-sighted.

    Consider this: the nation of Haiti *used* to have trees. They cut them all down for "business" reasons and the government felt that having any kind of environmental policy was too expensive. As a result, that nation now has no natural resources whatsoever and is one of the poorest nations on earth.

    Also consider: there have been governments that decided that certain types of humans were really just bipedal animals and thus destined for servitude. How would you like to be designated as a bipedal animal? Would you still hold your views if the government handcuffed you to a sewing machine or hauled you off to a medical lab for experimentation?

    You really should consider re-evaluating your opinion.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by teenlove View Post
    While animal rights seem to exist for no other reason than to complicate life for those of us who see animals as things created to for the sole purpose of servitude.
    It is opinions like this that are ruining the Earth. Animals were on this planet LONG before we were and so have every right to exist. They aren't servants and should be treated like companions.

    It is up to us, "the most intelligent" species on the planet to protect animals and treat them the respect we expect to be given. Just because you don't see a benefit of them doesn't mean others don't. You should respect that belief.

  5. #5

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    I don't believe in morals, i.e. I don't think that anything is morally right or morally wrong in any objective way.

    I definitely do believe that rights are very important, and I'm quite passionate about that! Human rights especially!

    I'm a lot more lax about animal rights though, especially when people seem to have weird double standards. (Some people happily eat non-free range eggs, yet shudder at the thought of wearing fur. Plus don't get me started on bestiality: you think shagging something is worse than killing something?)

    I find your post somewhat disturbing teenlove, you sound like a money hungry unethical businessman, or worse: a utilitarian!
    Disregarding important rights in favour of some other good. Sure animal rights slow down science, but what kind of people would we be if we did whatever we wanted with animals, without a care for their pain? I'm not saying that vivisection is wrong, but there has to be a discussion to be had.

    My main concern is human rights though. In this age of terrorism, it seems people are more than happy to let their rights slip away just to feel a bit safer.

  6. #6

    Question



    Quote Originally Posted by teenlove View Post
    I'm just wondering what other people on here think of morals, ethics, animal rights and to some extent human rights.
    As an atheist I don't see that ethics or rights are in any way objective. They are abstract, human-made concepts.



    Quote Originally Posted by teenlove View Post
    Personally i hate nearly everything about all of them, morals, ethics and human rights in particular slow down the progress of everything, science in particular, and make running businesses more costly.
    So... if a crazy scientist somewhere wanted to turn all pigeons into zombies that attack humans and destroy the planet, you think this would be permissable? After all, the scientist has no ethical responsibility and the humans/animals affected have no rights...

    And if someone shot you in the face because they didn't like the look of you... you would say that you don't have any right to stop them, and they don't have a duty to behave ethically?



    Quote Originally Posted by teenlove View Post
    While animal rights seem to exist for no other reason than to complicate life for those of us who see animals as things created to for the sole purpose of servitude.
    Animals can suffer and feel pain. How can it be right that you can inflict as much suffering on an animal as you like? Would you not like to live in a world in which sentient beings are protected (to some degree) from un-necessary pain? Or would you prefer a violent and bloody life, where you are frequently attacked, but in which you can attack others?

    Just for fun, there's an ethics quiz that matches your beliefs to those of famous philosophers. Apparently I have a 100% match for Jean-Paul Sartre and 84% Kant: Morality Quiz

  7. #7

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    This is an interesting one.

    Morals, more or less, are fluid and change with prevailing attitude of a given society at a given point of time. IE in the 40's and 50's being gay was seen as the ultimate form of degeneracy. Now being gay is accepted as just another facet of our human existence by most people. The "immorality" of being gay has slow changed by the changing attitude of the society.

    Ethics on the other hand are as stanch and unchangeable as humanly possible. IE a lawyer may feel it morally wrong to represent a pedophile but if he is assigned the case than he has an ethical obligation to present the best defense he can. When a soldier is ordered to go to a war he doesn't believe in he is still ethically required to do his duty and to do it within the code of a soldiers ethics as well. Morality plays little part.

    The most interesting part of this is that the thread starter makes bold statements that he hates morality. Since hating something or loving something comes from your own personal moral code and that code is influenced by society, it is almost impossible to to exist in a state without some moral measurement.

    As for animal rights: I want to paraphrase Mako from a long time back because he stated it the best.
    We don't have any rights that aren't given by our respective government, hence animals have no rights and people have very few.

    It is a personal moral choice to hurt an animal in your private life, it is an ethical requirement of your professional life that determines if you hurt an animal or not and in the manner in which you hurt that animal.

    The only time we as people experience true freedom is when we choose to live completely outside of a societies requirements and forsake any kind of support from that society, only than will one experience true freedom.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by teenlove View Post
    I'm just wondering what other people on here think of morals, ethics, animal rights and to some extent human rights. Personally i hate nearly everything about all of them, morals, ethics and human rights in particular
    Without a concept of ethics or morals there is no sense of right and wrong. Do you really want to live in that world? A world where someone could harm you or your loved ones and that wouldn't be protected against or even condemned. Don't you personally have a sense of what you believe is wrong, unfair or cruel?. That's your morality. If nothing is thought cruel and everything permissible then there is really only room for exploitation.

    You hate human rights? So, you want to be a slave? You don't want there to be a fair legal system and are fine with the concept of arbitrary arrest? Freedom of thought, expression and assembly is somehow anathema to you?

    Now, I agree that all things things - morals, ethics, laws - are artificial and constructed and that there are no objective moral truths, but they are still extremely important. Quite apart from what the ethics and morals a society structures itself along are, I certainly feel that it is impossible for any society to exist without them. The rights we give ourselves and laws we act under are absolutely fundamental and the extension of human freedoms and rights goes hand in hand with progress. Certainly, one cannot understand the progress of science or enterprise without understanding the philosophical movement of the Enlightenment, a movement that allowed science to flourish by giving it freedom on a point of principle.

    Saying that human rights make running businesses more costly makes the assumption that the most important thing is business and making money, but what exactly are businesses run for? The pleasure, profit and benefit of people, right? If you don't value people enough to think they deserve rights and protections why care so much about a structure they can benefit from? I just think your prioritisation is completely upside down, and that's without noting that without rights people cannot run their own businesses in the first place - the rights to work, liberty and property are in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights too.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by teenlove View Post
    I'm just wondering what other people on here think of morals, ethics, animal rights and to some extent human rights. Personally i hate nearly everything about all of them, morals, ethics and human rights in particular slow down the progress of everything, science in particuar,



    Sounds to me like you're one of those Darwin-Extremists. You know, those people who decided that because Darwin realized such a thing as Natural Selection (survival of the fittest) exists, that people who are in need are slowing down the process of evolution and therefore shouldn't be helped.

    Funny thing about you, is that if you live your life looking at things this way, you're actually one of the "unfit".

  10. #10
    Butterfly Mage

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    I guess, according to Teenlove, having Social Security is a waste of resources. After all, once you're too old or sick to work, you're no longer of value to the corporations. By that logic, society shouldn't have an moral obligations to care for people born with significant disabilities that limit their ability to work. If you're crippled in a car accident (or even a workplace accident), it's just tough luck, eh?

    I guess, by extension, that Teenlove probably thinks the police force is a waste of resources. After all, the rich can afford bodyguards and private security forces. Every man for himself!

    I don't think that's the kind of society that I would enjoy.

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