So Palin and others have been telling Americans that the proposed health care reform, which so far has not even been formally introduced in Congress, includes a provision by which the seriously and the terminally ill would be taken before a panel of government employees who woud judge that person's "usefulness" in society and then determine whether or not they are worth the money needed for medical care. They're calling them "Death Panels."
That is patently false. Not even a little bit of truth. And what's more it's completely ridiculous.
Now, I don't care that it was Palin who said it. But I'm just stunned by how low these people are stooping. This isn't stretching the truth; this isn't an extreme interpretation. It's a lie. And it's a lie that not only assumes that Americans are stupid and will swallow anything, it's a strategy that depends on it. These so called populists are banking on Americans being as stupid and gullible as they think we are.
What happened to, "I have a different approach," or, "I think my idea is better?" Instead we get rhetoric about murder, fascism, and racism. Glenn Beck told his viewers that a health care overhaul was driven by the president's secret agenda to pay slavery reparations!
How can these people spewing this bullshit not be ashamed of themselves? I get why Beck said it: to get attention and boost viewership and thus ratings and thus money. But Palin claims to be a patriot concerned only with what is best for Americans. Stunts like this make it hard to give her the benefit of the doubt.
And for every other peson who spouts this crap or something similar, on either side of the aisle, what they are saying is "I want what's best for America. And what's best isn't a reasoned debate on the subtleties of complex issues that have real ramifications on people's lives. It's not arriving at a functioning policy that best serves as many Americans as possible. It's winning, at whatever the cost to my integrity, to the integrity of those that get unwillingly tainted with my actions and most importantly to the Republic."
Some of you might say this is politics as usual. Some of you might say this is all a government does. But cynicism doesn't make the problem go away. Cynicism is the problem. It's what drives lies like these. It's cynicism that makes them think they won't get caught, and it's cynicism that makes sure they're never held responsible when they are.
I'd rather tilt at windmills all my life than become a part of that.
Don't really know why I posted this except to get that off my chest.
My first issue is that its Palin. She is definitely not popular, she is against gay marriage, and she's just generally a bad(stupid) politician. My second issue is that they are correct...There's a rather large population of Americans that can't point their country out on a map. These same people are voting for issues that don't effect them and are none of their business. The "lies," as you called it, are obviously working, because our gov't would probably be stupid enough to approve a "death board."
As for Slavery Reparations...I'm pretty sure Obama's not black/African American.
In my opinion, Palin should be kicked out of every congress and never be allowed back in. She really doesn't think before she lets this kind of bullshit spew out of her ass.
My first issue is that its Palin. She is definitely not popular, she is against gay marriage, and she's just generally a bad(stupid) politician.
So you don't like Obama either then. :P
He's losing popularity, he IS against gay marriage and he's had as much or in this case as little experience as Palin. Everything you said about Palin can be directly applied to Obama.
Anyways as for the topic at hand, this is the way politics have been played out even before I was born. They mix n' match truth, lies and twisting the truth, politicians do it, media corporations do it. So why do you focus on this issue rather then any other issue that's been tainted with lies and/or deception?
I already imagine it's since either you wholy support the liberals pushing for this bill to pass or you want to see national/"free" healthcare. I don't have a problem with you doing either one, it's only natural.
As for me, I think we should fix the problems we already have as a nation before we go off and make more problems. Even the successful "Cash For Clunkers" is a big success in most regards yet it already ran out of money. No matter how good a bill is there's always wasteful spending in it and it always makes another problem no matter how good it is.
Another problem I have is some people pay WAY more into taxes while others. I do know if that did not happen the majority of American's would see a big rise in their taxes, but I believe you should get back what you pay in. Plus like I said before if we keep spending and spending we are going to need more money. All these rich people are going to be more and more tempted to either move out of the states or keep their money in off shore accounts until finally their will be no other choice then each of us to pay our fair share.
Also I know I did not directly comment on the topic at hand, but I am a bit tired pretty much playing the sole conservative view point of ADISC.
I personally think a government run health care system is anti-American. Socialized medicine was not a provision of the Constitution.
Also, what is wrong with a panel assessing your health before determining a course of treatment? Isn't that...logical? If you don't qualify, then you don't qualify. Not everyone is going to get top of the line health care. That's life.
The gist of my thoughts are this: the left slings more mud then the right; get over Sarah Palin already; and, as Trevor wisely pointed out, we are spending "imaginary" money on theory and abstract. Will stimulus packages actually work? Who knows! Just spend, spend, spend. But for now, the people who asked for change - sure as hell got it. Enjoy every minute of it for the next four years.
$1,000,000,000,000 (That's a trillion, by the way.)
I really can't believe that in America you're just allowed to lie on the news!
At least you can find humour in all this, especially with great quotes like:
"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
Its a mistake to believe anything you see on TV, regardless of source. For the most part, the talking heads are not experts in whatever field they're discussing, and often are way out of their depth. Even when they have some of the facts correct, I'm left wondering what and how much they left out of the story. O'Reilly is the least bad of the lot, because he has the facts correct more often than not, and gives opponents the chance to get a couple words in. When I know who the opposition is, I can find the rest of the story when I need to.
Politicians aren't any better, and this whole health care thing scares the crap out of me. Obama reminds me of my wife. "Here, I found this toilet on sale at Lowe's, now you can put a bathroom in the basement". Well that's fine, except there's the whole matter of concrete, sewer lines and water lines to get pipes there, even before I start in on the carpentry..... He just dives into stuff he knows nothing about, tries to completely rearrange the economy and the country with no knowledge or thought to all the unintended consequences. Never mind that the federal government is on pretty thin Constitutional ice messing with it in the first place. "We have to get this done before the recess!" Seriously? You're going to blow up and start over an industry that accounts for something like 20% of the economy? What do you suppose that's going to do to the job situation? What makes you think the government is going to be better at it than the guys doing it now? You can't just pass laws to reduce prices. Carter tried that with oil, we ended up with mile long lines at gas stations. The Soviet Union tried that with EVERYTHING. They ended up with long lines for bread and toilet paper.
Am I the only one who finds it interesting that she posted this on Facebook? When did social networking websites get in the game of politics and political ideas/theories to such a degree that politicians themselves start posting on it for the public to see?
From one point of view, it is actually a very "logical" and "economical" choice to have a Death Board as Embry pointed out. It possibly could save some money on health care by eliminating those that have no chance of surviving, and doctors could spend their time and energy on those that have a chance.
However, the whole idea of a Death Board is NOT what are country is about. We were not founded under those beliefs. The whole things sounds rather Communist (I did not say socialist here; there are plenty of socialist countries in Europe that would NEVER do this) to me, not giving people individual freedoms and whatnot. Life is more important than anything; why should the government have a say on who lives and who doesn't, know matter how sick and ailing they are?
An excerpt from the Declaration of Independence:
Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.
Everyone has rights so they can have "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." For the sake of freedom and what it represents, I do not believe we should have one.
REALLY heated post, and completely out of character for me. Read at your own peril.
Lol at the American Right. I'm sure you're nice people, but all the American 24-hour news channels up here in Canada keep playing clips of angry white christian people loudly claiming their views and telling others to gtfo of America, instead of sitting down and politely listening to congress while they try to explain that no, Obama does not want to kill your grandmother.
Also, Canada has become a good boogyman for said loud people. Our health care system is not perfect, and you shouldn't be modeling your health care system after ours. There, it's been said.
Personaly, and this is coming from an outsider, I think a lot of these people should sit down, shut the hell up, and listen for once in their lives. If this health care reform is crap, then try to figure out how to fix it, improve upon it, or scrap it and come up with something better. Because right now the entire world is watching you guys act like idiots on television. "What makes a person anti-American? Questioning the government, and the status quo is the most American thing that you can do. It's what keeps this country great. Sitting back and swallowing what you're spoon fed is what will bring our demise."
One last thing. I learned long ago that almost 100% of what comes out of Sarah Palin's mouth while she's on television is stupid 'Pro-American' soundbite trash. A quote, said by Palin about the news media continuously taking shots at her: "So, how about, in honor of the American soldier, you quit making things up." Which, if you read carefully, makes no fucking sense at all. The worst part is, everyone there cheered when she said this, showing the complete, pardon my french, idiocy of the people that support her.
Before anyone gets any funny ideas, I'm no liberal commie baby-eating hippy Canadian kid. I don't blindly support my Liberal Party. In the days leading up to this fall election, I plan on researching every party's standing on all the issues important to me, then I'll make a choice. If they all suck, which they regularly seem to do, then I will not vote. That's something that seems to be lacking in politics all around the world.
One final word: If Palin runs for American Presidency, and, god forbid, she wins, then me and about 80% of other Canadians are going to break Canada away from continental US and go hang out with Australia. Because when a woman who believes that the earth is only 5000 years old, that god hates gay people, that Obama pals around with terrorists, that democrats are trying to turn the US into a soviet-like state becomes president of the most powerful nation in the world... The shit will hit the fan, and I don't want to be around when it does.
This is yet another reason why the US is the most powerful nation on the planet, yet everybody still laughs at them. There are many flaws in your country and this highlights one of the largest.
This is what happens when private companies fund politicians. Both sides use their money to broadcast to as many people as they can why the other side's story is a load of trash to the sacrifice of the facts. The side with more money who manages to brainwash the most people generally wins.
I have read three articles today already saying that this 'death board' is a load of nonsense and amounts to scaremongering. On top of that, it shows the public's inability to evaluate things. If there was a 'death board' which is better: a system where a large amount of the population can't afford any health care at all because they are too poor, or a system where a few elderly patients were denied expensive drugs because it would deprive many of more basic treatment.
I really can't believe that in America you're just allowed to lie on the news!
Now I'm a Brit and I'm not saying our healthcare system is perfect, far from it, but it's a great thing to know that if I fall seriously ill, or have an accident, I can be treated without worrying about putting my family into poverty.
I was born very early and had to be in intensive care for a few weeks. I hate to think what this would have costed in the US, maybe this is why the infant mortality rate is higher?
So like Charlie, it really annoys me when far right US politicians grotesquely twist the NHS system to try and make it look bad. Slight inaccuracies are one thing, but blatant lying in another altogether. Though it may have it's flaws, I reckon most Americans would be envious of our healthcare system when compared to theirs.
on a slight side note about lying on the news, have you ever read the sun or watched GMTV? Some of the stuff on those is very dodgy.
p.s. Did you know that in the event of a terror attack or national emergency the government can completely control what the news says?