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Thread: Concerned with being spotted with router

  1. #1

    Default Concerned with being spotted with router

    I have found many many tools to keep your data secure while transfering to your router, but routers can intercept data, or keep logs, correct? I am paranoid about it, can't really blame me when I learned everything about computers from my Dad and Google...Anyways, is there some way to scramble the data packet's information, or encrypt it so my router can't see it whatsoever? I am sure I am missing an incredibly easy method, anyone know what it is?

    My goal is to have some sort of software to be running on my system to scramble (or something) all of the data until its past my router.

    If TOR or something actually does this (not my area of expertise), that's pretty much out of the question, it is WAY too slow. Any help or a tip in the right direction is greatly appreciated!

    As I said before, hiding from things really isn't my area of expertise...Forgive my stupidity.

  2. #2

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    Well first of all, do you believe your parents or who-ever have reason to spy on you and are the type of person to go and check on your web activities, do they have the skill/know-how?

    But yes, some routers have the ability to log. and a simple check would be to try and log into the router and found out. can easily be done by entering your gataway IP into your default web-browser's address bar. It's pretty standard to have a web based control panel these days. If it asks for a password google for the default make and model password for that router.


    I could go on about seeing what the router does, however if it is logging, it's best to not see you tamper with it, otherwise it would appear that you are actively doing something, with using encryption your parents may not easily realise that you are avoiding being tracked by using encryption.

    But if you want to "scrable" your data, something has to unscramble it at the other end, because if the router doesn't get it, how will the other end? So you can tunnel things, there are loads of proxy sites out there. and go for one that uses https e.g. https://www.sslunblock.com/ I think is one. I use them at uni, I don't think this gives out any clue to your ip on the sites you are accessing. I ran a test, but I'm not 100% convinced. But remember this is a public proxy so don't do anything sensitive on them. you never know what tricks they could be pulling on you!

    recently adisc implement https:// although experimental, it isn't 100% fully secure, in the sense that the whole page is encrypted. Some things do leak through.

    But yeah https is what stops people in the middle of you and the website (the router in this case) from see what is on the web pages or the URLs you are accessing. However, the thing they will see is the IP you are connecting to. Which would be adisc, but the router may mark an ip on https connections or not. Depends what it is set up to do. But that's why you use a proxy because it will see which proxy site you are on. but not what sites you are browsing it with.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGrizzy View Post
    I have found many many tools to keep your data secure while transfering to your router, but routers can intercept data, or keep logs, correct? I am paranoid about it, can't really blame me when I learned everything about computers from my Dad and Google...Anyways, is there some way to scramble the data packet's information, or encrypt it so my router can't see it whatsoever? I am sure I am missing an incredibly easy method, anyone know what it is?

    My goal is to have some sort of software to be running on my system to scramble (or something) all of the data until its past my router.

    If TOR or something actually does this (not my area of expertise), that's pretty much out of the question, it is WAY too slow. Any help or a tip in the right direction is greatly appreciated!

    As I said before, hiding from things really isn't my area of expertise...Forgive my stupidity.
    There are two prongs of complaint here, as I see them:
    1. Plain-text traffic in packets may be intercepted and even rebuilt in near-real time;
    2. Packet end-points (destinations) are visible on intermediary routers.


    As for #1, you can tunnel/encrypt the session--that way, people can see that you're going to horriblepornsite.com, but not what data is moving over the connection.

    #2 is more difficult. You can use a proxy or another obfuscation method--you bring up TOR, but dismiss it as it is too slow.

  4. #4

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    I checked my router logs, and it doesn't appear they can log much, just a bunch of IP's (about 1500 entries from one day), which I assume are all for torrents, because they have messed up port numbers. What are good tunneling programs?

  5. #5

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    You could buy a shell account (probably ~$5/mo) and then ssh tunnel through it. More recent versions of ssh support SOCKS 5, so you could just tell firefox to proxy through it, including remote DNS. Basically, all your parents could see is a connection to your shell. Anything beyond that (and the amount of data transferred) they couldn't see.

  6. #6

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    Pup notes that tunnels need endpoints.

    People in search of some quick anonymity usually 'take advantage of'/abuse open proxy servers. Some, somewhere, are probably even provided expressly for that purpose. This makes the endpoint of your packets the proxy server ('proxying' basically being an application-layer tunnel; the full SOCKS protocol is essentially a tunnel protocol), good enough for obfuscating simple firewall logs, but since the protocol is unencrypted, the requested destination and payload is visible to anyone who cares to sniff.

    To obfuscate the payload, you need encryption, which can be achieved with any of a bazillion tunnel protocols. Many ssh implementations include port-forwarding features that are 'good enough' to create a temporary encrypted tunnel (forwarding the destination host's view of desiredsite.com:80 to localhost:8080, for example), assuming the destination sshd allows it. The hard part, again, is finding your endpoint.

    There are always some efforts floating around to create protocols for 'anonymity networks' based on these principles. Tor is the first that comes to mind, Tor: anonymity online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network) . But pup urges you to note the obvious shortcomings pointed out in the Wikipedia article. Foremost, these networks only 'spread' the risks and add an element of plausible deniability. Sniffing at an endpoint (equally a concern when using some random open proxy pulled from a list somewhere) can still give a lot of useful information to someone at that end, and participating (or at least fully participating) in such a network means that, while your requests are going through others' machines, others' requests may originate from your machine - leaving the RIAA or FBI knocking on your door for someone else's dirty deeds. At the same time, it is not very secure against someone with a view of the entire network (as most assume the NSA has, and less-democratic countries surely have).

    Pup thinks protocols like Tor are a marginally useful solution for maybe slipping some data back and forth across national borders and "great firewalls." A police state can sniff out Tor nodes, arrest their operators, and Tor will continue to function as long as they don't get them all - but the people behind the ones they do catch won't. Back in the "free world," plausible deniability only gets you so far when you've made a conscious decision to participate in the network and be an accessory to criminal activity that the network may make the original perpetrators of hard to find.

    Pup thus thinks that concepts like Tor are overrated and best left to "hacktivists" willing to take a fall to make a point. If you're truly in need of absolute privacy, you have to find someone to play tunnel endpoint for you, with encryption - or purchase such by getting a shell or 'colo' account somewhere that permits you to set up a private tunnel under their terms of service. If you care to muck with setting up an entire colocated website, that would be a good excuse, but remember that you'll need real shell access, and possibly root access, to be able to set up your private tunnel/proxy alongside it. An "unmanaged" VM (search for "virtual server" / "virtual private server" services) somewhere can be had for $15 a month or less - pup finds one claiming $5.95 - and would give you quite a start for a career in IT or CS (if you dare want one!).

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Dude84

    Default

    One perhaps irrelevant thought; if you were to purchase a VM or similar this would probably be done by credit card. If AVS is used, the supplier of such a service and anyone investigating ("armed" with the relevant legal documents if necessary) would be able to identify the owner of any traffic transpiring thorugh such a service anyway, surely?
    Last edited by Dude84; 21-Jul-2009 at 07:08. Reason: Grammatical correction

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by markdude84 View Post
    One perhaps irrelevant thought; if you were to purchase a VM or similar this would probably be done by credit card. If AVS is used, the supplier of such a service and anyone investigating ("armed" with the relevant legal documents if necessary) would be able to identify the owner of any traffic transpiring thorugh such a service anyway, surely?
    Pup agrees. Pup noted the OP wanted privacy at home and that should be enough. Pup notes that anything approaching true anonymity or "untraceability" can require a significant investment of effort and will be proportionally less convenient for simple web browsing.

    Pup also notes that, at second look, "relaying" with Tor is apparently optional, so being only a 'leech' must be permitted in the software without additional tinkering. But even if you trust Tor and do not become a matter of national security (as would generally be necessary to unlock the resources to trace the whole path), your cookie jar or other aspects of the application and social layers (login credentials, the things you actually say or do online, metadata in any files you share) are likely to leak identifying data at some point unless you are extremely vigilant with your paranoia. Avoiding casual - and somewhat directed - snooping is the foundation of e-commerce, but avoiding a three letter agency, if they take an interest in you, is a career. (Pup sounds like International Dog of Mystery now, but nah - pup just watched friends do stupid things and be called to answer for them, years ago.) Pup thus suggests not giving any such agencies a reason to take interest, but agrees same is somewhat arbitrary in an era when everyone is likely to violate a copyright and become a "dangerous pirate" at some point.

    [In fact, pup is out on a limb now - meow - but suggests paying attention to the strange ways of the world. As far as being a "dangerous pirate" goes - in the USA, if you are personally identifiable - really just personally addressable - by your third-party hosting provider, you are likely to get the 'courtesy' of a DMCA takedown if the rights holder complains about any files you happen to have 'inadvertently' shared on that provider's systems (if that provider is a 'ISP' protected by that law's 'safe harbor provisions'). But if those same files were shared on an 'anonymous' P2P network and some hired-gun subcontractor records your address and sets off a (mostly private) chain of investigation that manages to link you to the event, the first notice you will ever get is the summons to federal court to defend yourself from the music industry's allegation that you have caused them millions of dollars of damage!]

    Pup also would be far from alone in suggesting Bruce Schneier's popular Secrets and Lies: Digital Security in a Networked World as a breezy introduction to why complicated security systems, institutional or personal, often fail, and the minimum requirements for a resilient one. Very breezy, but fast reading and good to get down before drinking cryptography kool-aid.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by anotherpuppy View Post
    As far as being a "dangerous pirate" goes - in the USA, if you are personally identifiable - really just personally addressable - by your third-party hosting provider, you are likely to get the 'courtesy' of a DMCA takedown if the rights holder complains about any files you happen to have 'inadvertently' shared on that provider's systems (if that provider is a 'ISP' protected by that law's 'safe harbor provisions').
    Ah, but I thought a judge recently ruled IP addresses are NOT personally identifiable; rather that they identify a computer terminal (or other connected device).

    We finally have a tiny foothold on reason; I'm waiting for the next logical progression of this, which is that MAC/BIA and IP addresses can be spoofed.

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