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Thread: Do online thieves really think they are doing nothing wrong?

  1. #1

    Default Do online thieves really think they are doing nothing wrong?

    So it seems to be a frightening new trend that a lot of people are abusing PayPal for Art commissions as Digital Art is considered an "Intangible Good/Service" and therefore not protected by PayPal and the Buyer can just do a chargeback and get the commission for free.

    I still think this is Thievery just like how people try all kinds of tricks to try to get free stuff on eBay (I am well versed in all manner of their trickery and got scammed a few times, worst was almost losing $250 on a used PS4 Pro when the seller sent me a Magazine instead and had to wait nearly 2 weeks for a refund), I mean do they really think they are not thieves or they have no morals and dont care how they effect other people with their tricks of asking for something, paying for it, getting it, and then getting a chargeback?

  2. #2

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    Some people really don't care, although I feel like it's a lot worse when you're knowingly doing it to an individual.

    There are a lot of shoplifters who could easily afford to buy what they're stealing - they just don't want to and don't think it really hurts a large business. There are also plenty of people who will claim an item is damaged when it's not, in the hope they'll get sent a new one and the company won't bother reclaiming the old one. Or they'll return it but pester the manager for a discount on the replacement or vouchers as a gesture of 'goodwill' - they just want something for nothing because they care more about themselves than the other side. The same thing happens in restuarants: people will eat most of the meal then claim it was afwul and want it on the house. Some managers will hold firm and even blacklist them, but many will just give in to keep them quiet and avoid a scene - it's blackmail in a way.

    I don't see much you can do about this one except stopping using Paypal, and of course making other artists aware of the individual so they'll find it hard to get someone to make a comission for them ever again. I suppose legally you could try to pursue a claim for copyright infrigement if they tried to use it publicly and you were never paid for it, but it's likely to cost you more in legal fees than it's worth. It's only going to happen if someone rich does it to prove a point.

  3. #3

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    That is one thing with online Thieves, especially on eBay, maybe they think they are attempting to scam a "Large Business" that can "afford to take the loss", but I don't sell that much on eBay and I still occasionally get these people trying some sort of trick to get stuff for free.

    The last time I got ripped off I sent a buyer a brand new "FightStick" as they call them (basically a controller that allows you to play Fighting Games, like Street Fighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur, etc just like you would on an Old School Arcade Machine) that retailed at over $150, I sold the item for $100 which is what a regular FightStick goes for and I had a very special Limited Edition/Tournament Edition one.

    Well, wouldn't you know it they received it, played with it too hard, broke it, and then sent it back as defective and since I didn't charge for shipping I lost the cost of the item, AND SHIPPING.

    All I can say is NEVER AGAIN, i am not messing around with those Arcade Style controllers, and i am gonna charge for shipping on everything from now on, that way any return will come at the cost of shipping.

    That may seem like I'm being an @Hole, but it sucks losing money like that, that was $50 out of pocket because some jerk figured eBay was a place to buy expensive toys, break them, and then return them for a full refund.

  4. #4

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    I remember the days of Napster when a lot of people were getting tunes for free. In reality, they weren't paying the artist for their work and creation, and it's always wrong. China continues to duplicate the work of others, especially movies on DVD and don't pay the industries or the artists.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
    I remember the days of Napster when a lot of people were getting tunes for free. In reality, they weren't paying the artist for their work and creation, and it's always wrong. China continues to duplicate the work of others, especially movies on DVD and don't pay the industries or the artists.
    News Flash, people still do it (in several different ways, nothing like Napster is even needed anymore, speaking of Which, Napster is around but it's a paid subscription service now), not to mention there are easy ways to stream movies for free too (even ones that are recently released in theaters).

    Ironically the well known Musical Artists and Movie Theater Companies still make Millions/Billions even as there is still nothing like live performances/seeing movies in theaters (if you can find the time to go and have the money)

    Probably 999/1000 times if someone is downloading music/viewing movies for free they weren't gonna pay anyways, so it really doesn't effect it as negatively as you might think, just like if someone buys a fake Rolex for $300 they weren't gonna buy the real one for $10,000

  6. #6

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    I expect this comes from the kind of people who badger artists for free art. When you see the messages the artists get, it's often along the lines of "you enjoy doing it, it's not real work" or "it doesn't take that long and it's good practice" or the infamous "it will be good exposure for your art". Point being, I think the people like this can justify it to themselves without that much difficulty. The cost was too high, the artist was mean or unreasonable, or they simply can't afford it.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    I expect this comes from the kind of people who badger artists for free art. When you see the messages the artists get, it's often along the lines of "you enjoy doing it, it's not real work" or "it doesn't take that long and it's good practice" or the infamous "it will be good exposure for your art". Point being, I think the people like this can justify it to themselves without that much difficulty. The cost was too high, the artist was mean or unreasonable, or they simply can't afford it.
    Well, there is no good reason no matter what, I mean they wouldn't be able to go to a Tattoo shop, have a Tattoo done, and then run off with the money; art is no different regardless of it is is Physical or Digital; they ask for a service, somebody provides the service, they owe that person for the service provided.

    As far as not being able to afford it, they shouldn't even buy it in the first place if there is even any question on whether they can afford it or not.

    As for "good exposure" I think they would only be reasonable if the person getting the art has an art gallery or something like that and is displaying it; otherwise it's just another excuse for free work.

    I'm not an artist personally, but any skill that is being asked for should still be paid for, regardless of what that skill is.

    I've been ripped off before and understand the frustration that accompanies it.

    If those people can so easily justify that sort of thing, they are pretty sorry excuses for humans, I wonder if they try to get their house painted for free? What about construction? Where do they draw the line on what is worth paying for instead of abusing a policy to get it for free?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyTyrant View Post
    Well, there is no good reason no matter what, I mean they wouldn't be able to go to a Tattoo shop, have a Tattoo done, and then run off with the money; art is no different regardless of it is is Physical or Digital; they ask for a service, somebody provides the service, they owe that person for the service provided.

    As far as not being able to afford it, they shouldn't even buy it in the first place if there is even any question on whether they can afford it or not.

    As for "good exposure" I think they would only be reasonable if the person getting the art has an art gallery or something like that and is displaying it; otherwise it's just another excuse for free work.

    I'm not an artist personally, but any skill that is being asked for should still be paid for, regardless of what that skill is.

    I've been ripped off before and understand the frustration that accompanies it.

    If those people can so easily justify that sort of thing, they are pretty sorry excuses for humans, I wonder if they try to get their house painted for free? What about construction? Where do they draw the line on what is worth paying for instead of abusing a policy to get it for free?
    I had no intention to describe any of those as good reasons. They are bad reasons but people justify things to themselves and a bad reason or bad reasoning is better than none. Of course it's theft.

  9. #9

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    When I was a kid, I often got asked to play for events for the "experience" instead of dollars. I usually did but as I got older, it became for money only. Years later when I was playing in a professional band with professional management, I wouldn't even wear a T-shirt with a commercial logo on it like "Coke". It was pay or nothing. We had expenses to, in equipment and travel. Nothing is ever for free.

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