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Thread: Pro Gay Marriage, Anti Trans

  1. #11
    MarchinBunny

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Yep. Otherwise everyone pats each other on the back, congratulates themselves on their hipness, and goes on over the cliff with the other trendy lemmings.
    LOL, but there isn't a cliff here.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by theroadlesstraveled View Post
    I'm curious if I'm the only one that thinks this way. Although I don't [I]personally[I] identify as a gay man being a heterosexual Christian married to a woman man, I can't justify not supporting gay marriage. Again, I don't actually agree with the lifestyle, but if I was a politician I think I would actually support it. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is that not what America is all about? Having said that, I don't agree with the idea of being transgender. I have a hard time justifying the amputation of a perfectly fine body part because I "feel" like it shouldn't be there. What would a doctor say if I came in and told them that I feel like I should have only been born with a right arm and wished to have it amputated?

    Something I have wandered in the past: if you consider yourself transgender, were you involved in any sort of trauma growing up or have something out of the norm cajole you into feeling the way you do?

    Let me be clear, this post is in no way attacking anyone. Even if you are transgender and are reading this, I would have a beer with you because we are both DLs (are there any AB that AREN'T DLs?!) and you can't fight this thing alone. Personally being a DL is terrible to me and I wouldn't want this for my worst enemy but I am trying to deal with it the best way possible and that means you too!
    It's a lot more than "I have the wrong genitals!" Though that is a big part of it for most/many transgenders. SRS is only one of many issues transgenders have on their minds. Some people never even have surgery, due to financial, health, or other reasons. It's no one's business what's under someone else's clothing anyway (unless you're in a relationship or hurting someone).

    Personally, I don't know what I think about SRS. I kinda wish I could have it someday, I really don't like "what I have".... yet surgery also scares me like crazy! However, I also fear that I'll never transition in the first place. I'm way too sensitive... I'm not sure how I'd deal with the controversy that would suddenly surround me, just for trying to be who I want to be. Plus, money problems. Sometimes... or often... I feel like I will never win.... No matter what I do or don't do.

    Liking diapers does not have to be a terrible thing. I would not get rid of the desire if given the choice. Maybe there is a slight sexual component to it, but that's only because IRL I'm a stupid human and can't help it XD I liked diapers before it was anything remotely sexual. (to make it even more confusing, I'm also asexual) Actually, I didn't even potty train easily... because it took a lot of convincing to make me give up diapers in the first place. So I see it as more of a thing I like that resurfaced later, once I stopped telling myself "it's for babies! people would make fun of me! they'd probably somehow magically know! stupid baby stuff! Grrrr!". What I do wish... is that I could wear diapers without it being an issue. I don't want to shove it in people's faces IRL, not at all. But I don't want to fear people finding out either.

    (kinda typed this post in a hurry before dinner. May have forgotten to add a few things)

  3. #13

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    Very interesting perspective. As a gay person, I have also had similar concerns with certain segments of our society. As a gay person myself, I often don't understand the behaviour of other individuals and tend to stick with people who are 'in my own club,'



    Quote Originally Posted by theroadlesstraveled View Post
    I'm curious if I'm the only one that thinks this way. Although I don't [I]personally[I] identify as a gay man being a heterosexual Christian married to a woman man, I can't justify not supporting gay marriage. Again, I don't actually agree with the lifestyle, but if I was a politician I think I would actually support it. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is that not what America is all about? Having said that, I don't agree with the idea of being transgender. I have a hard time justifying the amputation of a perfectly fine body part because I "feel" like it shouldn't be there. What would a doctor say if I came in and told them that I feel like I should have only been born with a right arm and wished to have it amputated?

    Something I have wandered in the past: if you consider yourself transgender, were you involved in any sort of trauma growing up or have something out of the norm cajole you into feeling the way you do?

    Let me be clear, this post is in no way attacking anyone. Even if you are transgender and are reading this, I would have a beer with you because we are both DLs (are there any AB that AREN'T DLs?!) and you can't fight this thing alone. Personally being a DL is terrible to me and I wouldn't want this for my worst enemy but I am trying to deal with it the best way possible and that means you too!
    I'm curious if I'm the only one that thinks this way. Although I don't personally identify as a heterosexual man being a gay athiest, I can't justify not supporting heterosexual marriage. Again, I don't actually agree with the lifestyle, but if I was a politician I think I would actually support it.

    Something I have wondered in the past: if you consider yourself heterosexual, were you involved in any sort of trauma growing up or have something out of the norm cajole you into feeling the way you do.

    Let me be clear, this post is in no way attacking anyone. Even if you are heterosexual and are reading this, I would have a beer with you because we are both DL's and you can't fight this thing alone.



    So if we can accept each other here for being DL's, perhaps instead of disagreeing with how transgenders live, we can start asking questions and learning from the transgender population on this site, and support them in their struggles in having to sort out gender identity and sexual orientation, living with a higher rate of violence against them, higher rates of suicide and suicidal ideation. Not to mention having to engage in senseless debates about whether it's physiological or psychological as if that changes how they feel about themselves.

    I've always said the gay rights movement was twenty five years behind the feminist movement, and that the transgender movement was twenty five years behind the gay rights movement. Threads like this convince me of that. To the OP, I can only say that rather than simply not agreeing with transgender lives, I hope you will instead take some time to educate yourself and learn from the many transgenders on this forum who have taught me so much.
    Last edited by Starrunner; 21-Apr-2017 at 02:48.

  4. #14

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    Starrunner,

    I appreciate the feedback and agree. I like to get others' thoughts and learn with my own reading. **ORIGINALLY** I thought BLM was just an excuse to insight violence but then I did my own reading and found it goes mitch much deeper than what the media on birth sides let on and now I would agree with them. I don't talk politics and that is not my intent but I say that to say I like to educate myself on matters because just like raising kids, everyone has an opinion of everything and everyone is always right.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Shippofox,

    I admire your boldness in regards to willingly standing behind diapers and am partially jealous Nothing is more liberating than being who you are meant to be. Diapers have caused me a whole train wreck of issues. If I was single and had never met my wife, life may be different. It wasn't until this past Monday that my wife came to terms with it and I can finally be who I am. I don't have any tattoos but in light of this I'm thinking about getting a tattoo that says, "I am whom I am" because for the first time in 31 years, I feel completely at peace with myself.

  5. #15

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    I think it's human nature to not understand the things that we ourselves don't feel or haven't personally experienced. That doesn't mean these things or feelings don't exist. Bigger people are able to understand this and emote with others, trying to put themselves in their place. I feel male and enjoy being a male, but I can understand and believe someone when they tell me they feel like they are the opposite sex. It's not difficult for me to embrace what they are saying, because I feel things that others don't.

    I'm bi and I have enjoyed having a sexual relationship with other males. I'm both AB and DL, something very few people are. It's not hard to find people who thinks AB/DLs are creepy, weird and mentally ill. Just read the comments on You Tube or Reddit and other social media sites. That doesn't make our feelings any less real or genuine. I therefore am able to accept and believe that transgender people genuinely feel they should have been born the opposite sex to what they biologically are.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starrunner View Post
    Very interesting perspective. As a gay person, I have also had similar concerns with certain segments of our society. As a gay person myself, I often don't understand the behaviour of other individuals and tend to stick with people who are 'in my own club,'

    I'm curious if I'm the only one that thinks this way. Although I don't personally identify as a heterosexual man being a gay athiest, I can't justify not supporting heterosexual marriage. Again, I don't actually agree with the lifestyle, but if I was a politician I think I would actually support it.
    As a bisexual man, I have to admit I have a really hard time understanding and empathizing with *both* the exclusively hetero and homo sexual "lifestyle"! LOL

    Seriously though... good on you for having this disscusion and being open to talking about it. So many people online just want to pop up and snipe some tired old superficial quip that reinforces their world view, rather than taking time to listen and try to understand other points of view.

    Personally, I have a fear of surgery and pain in general, and beyond that can't imagine wanting to lose my wonderful happy boy bits!

    That said, I can imagine that if I was in a car accident and had been burned in the face or otherwise disfigured, I'd choose reconstructive surgery no matter the risks, even knowing It'd never be fully right. When I try to empathize with folks who are surgically transitioning I imagine that it's not about voluntarily losing something of yourself, but desperately trying to become 'right' when you look in the mirror and see something deeply 'wrong'.



    Quote Originally Posted by theroadlesstraveled View Post
    , I would have a beer with you because we are both DLs (are there any AB that AREN'T DLs?!) and you can't fight this thing alone.
    Um... I'm an AB that says they are DL as a matter of convenience. I've said this before, I 'love' and have had a lifelong complex relationship to diapers, but it's 'only' because they make me feel babyish, bring out my little side, and force me to confront and embrace my need to taken care of, so...

    Anyways I hope you'd share a drink anyways ... we are in this together!

  7. #17
    LittleJess

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    Your stance on being anti-transgender is mostly rooted in not understanding the condition fully or some inner conflict, maybe it's a religion, maybe it's upbringing but it appears to be a misunderstanding of what the condition is.

    Transgender people have brains suited to there gender (ie female or male brains), It's kind of no different to sexual orientation in the sense your born that way, but it's not the same as not wanting a left arm, It's more of a inner conflict with the brain and the body, It's similar to how the brain rejects the wrong blood type, or sometimes rejects organs. It's more along the lines of having a body that doesn't match your real gender.

    The same thing can happen physically, some people are literally born with both body parts, or the wrong body parts it happens in biology so if people are born with the wrong body parts, why can't be they born the wrong gender?

    The thing with evolution and humans is we very a lot, there are tons of differences that can occur genetically, some people can be born with extra toes, disabilities etc, nature isn't perfect and sometimes things happen which causes us to be born the wrong gender. (even hair color, eye color, skin color etc)


    With me I'm trans, I feel female, I act female, I'm very feminine, even my body shows aspects of femininity, I naturally weigh as much as a female.

    My body has feminine characteristics to it, physically. I could literally pass as female if I wanted to, I'm not buff, I have a thigh gap, I'm as skinny as a female my age etc, no chest hair etc, very clear and young looking skin etc.

    (edit)

    Also, Transgender is not a mental illness, I'm not going to start a entire debate on why it's not, It's as pointless as explaining climate change to a climate change denier or explaining why Bigfoot doesn't exist.

    There was a time where it was listed as one, but the same goes with homosexuality, we have enough scientific evidence and research that it has been taken of that list.

    If you want to use out dated information, you might as well drill a hole in someones head because they have a tooth ache. Science and medicine changes all the time.

    Fuck, there was even a time where you could buy Heroin over the counter for coughs, that's how much things change.
    Last edited by LittleJess; 21-Apr-2017 at 16:33.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binary View Post
    Your stance on anti-transgenderism is mostly rooted in not understanding the condition fully or some inner conflict, maybe it's a religion, maybe it's upbringing but it appears to be a misunderstanding of what the condition is.

    Transgender people have brains suited to there gender (ie female or male brains), It's kind of no different to sexual orientation in the sense your born that way, but it's not the same as not wanting a left arm, It's more of a inner conflict with the brain and the body, It's similar to how the brain rejects the wrong blood type, or sometimes rejects organs. It's more along the lines of having a body that doesn't match your real gender.

    The same thing can happen physically, some people are literally born with both body parts, or the wrong body parts it happens in biology so if people are born with the wrong body parts, why can't be they born the wrong gender?

    The thing with evolution and humans is we very a lot, there are tons of differences that can occur genetically, some people can be born with extra toes, disabilities etc, nature isn't perfect and sometimes things happen which causes us to be born the wrong gender. (even hair color, eye color, skin color etc)


    With me I'm trans, I feel female, I act female, I'm very feminine, even my body shows aspects of femininity, I naturally weigh as much as a female.

    My body has feminine characteristics to it, physically. I could literally pass as female if I wanted to, I'm not buff, I have a thigh gap, I'm as skinny as a female my age etc, no chest hair etc, very clear and young looking skin etc.
    That's very insightful. Lately I've wondered if I have more of a female brain myself. I'm a straight male but I've noticed my temperament and personality more closely resemble a female personality.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starrunner View Post
    I'm curious if I'm the only one that thinks this way. Although I don't personally identify as a heterosexual man being a gay athiest, I can't justify not supporting heterosexual marriage. Again, I don't actually agree with the lifestyle, but if I was a politician I think I would actually support it.

    Something I have wondered in the past: if you consider yourself heterosexual, were you involved in any sort of trauma growing up or have something out of the norm cajole you into feeling the way you do.

    Let me be clear, this post is in no way attacking anyone. Even if you are heterosexual and are reading this, I would have a beer with you because we are both DL's and you can't fight this thing alone.
    Good one!


    So if we can accept each other here for being DL's, perhaps instead of disagreeing with how transgenders live, we can start asking questions and learning from the transgender population on this site, and support them in their struggles in having to sort out gender identity and sexual orientation, living with a higher rate of violence against them, higher rates of suicide and suicidal ideation. Not to mention having to engage in senseless debates about whether it's physiological or psychological as if that changes how they feel about themselves.
    The question of whether this is a physiological or psychological issue is important for society in general in order for it to figure how to handle the situation. If it is decided that this is a mental problem then the proper course of action would be to get these people into some kind of mental health program so they can start on the road to becoming "cured". Society has been moving in the other direction, though, and is slowly starting to accept this as some kind of physiological phenomenon. I share this view but the proper course of action in this case isn't so clear cut.

    The bullying and violence needs to be addressed the same way in either case, but, as a society, we don't yet know how to deal with what appears to be bizarre demands of a group of people who are assumed to be mentally sound. This is complicated by the fact that a significant number of people still see it as a mental health issue and so are inclined reject anything but a psychological cure on an individual basis.

  10. #20

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    That could also be part of the problem. Having mental health problems has a stigma of its own in our society. I've told real people about my mental limitations, my BPD, etc. and every time I feel a shameful weirdness about it.

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