Reducing the "Cringe" Mentality

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I agree with Gsmax, and MarchinBunny,

It seems inevitable that folks will be weird-ed out, repulsed, surprised, shocked, by ABDLs when they first hear or them or are exposed to one.

Frankly it doesn't even matter of you wear a diaper. Seeing a grown person acting like an infant or wearing oversized infant clothes (usually suffering from the uncanny inflation of size which makes their proportions distorted) is shocking.

This is no different than any niche or fringe and is frankly normal when we are not "normal" in the sense of "being the common, default, majority, expected". If you don't live around a lot of gay people, you're gonna be shocked when you first see two men kiss. If you're not part of the BDSM scene, calling someone a domanatrix is a risque joke, and if they pulled out a ball gag of their bag your jaw would drop. If you've not been educated about autism, your first introduction to how their mind works is going to trigger the reaction that's it's hard to imagine. If you didn't grow up eating snails, when you first get served some without warning, you're gonna jump out of your seat.

I think MarchinBunny mentioned this, but their seems to be an expectation that somehow other "minority lifestyles/interests/personality/sexuality" which now have greater awareness, and protection, are also somehow accepted, and don't induce strong negative feelings. This is not the case. In the USA even a huge percentage of people (nearly half) made it clear that they are not just cringing a little about gay or transexual people, but are actively hostile to them.

I guess I'm trying to say, awareness does not equal acceptance. It' not reasonable or helpful to think so.

I also agree that general awareness of the full spectrum of people's neuro-diveristy and sexual diversity, and tolerance and acceptance of folks of all kinds, seems like a great and reasonable goal. I'll be honest, there are things that totally squick me out. Vore, hardcore rape fantasies, they bother me emotionally, even as I intellectually know that these things are actually always in control of the 'sub'. That's OK. I can be tolerant and supportive of things that I find squicky. Heck I can be tolerant and supportive of things I find problematic, even while I offer criticism (hopefully constructive).

What I find *actually* cringeworthy both in ABDLs and among other groups is a lack of self awareness and consideration for others...
 
ZetaSonic said:
We've all seen the word used by non-*BDLs to describe their reaction to just knowing we're here: "cringe".

It's stuff like this, as well as some harassment on DeviantArt, that makes me support the notion of open activism.
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I was recently outed by my family. It was embarrassing but I was not shamed. I don't think I could come out openly though. I have though of driving to the Tykables brick and mortar store in suburban Chicago. No one knows me there. I am a professional though and Infantilism is considered a mental illness by the DSM-5. It's just too risky and for some reason, many "normies" falsely associate AB/DL with hurting children sexually pedophilia. Even in the DSM-5 it clearly states that we do not seek children as sexual partners, playthings etc...We are protective of children as it turns out.


"There is no recognized etiology for infantilism and little research on the subject. It has been linked to masochism and a variety of other paraphilias. Though commonly confused with pedophilia, the two conditions are distinct and infantilists do not seek children as sexual partners.[11][12] A variety of causes has been proposed, including altered lovemaps, imprinting gone awry and errors in erotic targets, though there is no consensus. A variety of organizations exist to promote infantilism or meet with other practitioners throughout the world." see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilic_infantilism

If there were a AB/DL pride parade I may attend. I think our numbers are too small though. Travel expenses, rental car, hotel, permits...etc I think ADISC is as close as we should come to having advocacy of an alternative lifestyle.

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MarchinBunny said:
No one here says it's entirely a sexual fetish, that is simply what you seem to get out of the arguments that you never actually reply to. x.x
If you can't ever have a proper debate, don't expect you will ever change another person's mind. If you can't counter arguments, then all you do is solidify a person's stance.

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For some it is a sexual release. I stand for the proposition that that is fine. For others it is not sexual. For me it wasn't until I went through puberty. I started DL at age 3 and am now a 40 something beautiful straight woman. I did not choose to be a DL, it just happened. I can't shake it. It's like an addiction but with no negative consequences. I am compelled to purchase and wear diapers in my size and ABDL diapers have been an answer to prayer.:worshippy:



Something to keep in mind it's not even "conditioned" it's an evolutionary trait to some extent. Very few animals want to be anywhere near their own waste, let alone have to wear it. Babies and elderly get away with it and there is less stigma with it, because they tend to need to. It doesn't change the fact that it's still gross to just about everyone who isn't an AB/DL. Do you think mothers who change baby diapers don't think it's gross?

Let me ask you this. Do you want people who have a vomit fetish (sexual or not) to start making it public and accepted without any sort of cringe?
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:grouphug:
 
You know... I want to apologize for my response, as I feel it's not addressing the original poster's question.

To be honest I found myself distracted and literally cringing over the discussion. I feel a thoughtless activism is just as cringe-inducing as a thoughtless intrusion of ourselves into other people's lives. If we're honest, we'll realize that it doesn't matter what is the 'correct' definition or understanding of whether diapers are 'just underwear', or whether ABDL is a fetish or not. You will never change people's hearts or minds by trying to argue these points of semantics. In fact you will only make them see you as desperate and detached from their reality. Once they don't have empathy, it's all over.

I agree with the original poster.

We *should* work hard to reduce the overall cringe-reaction around ABDL. We want to raise awareness that while we are 'different' we are not creepy.

I personally feel that part of that is our behavior.

I also hope that awareness and tolerance will eventually come, however I think we need to be honest that "tolerance" does not mean "enthusiastic support".

I think we also need to be honest that ABDL hits a combination of factors that make it one of the least likely to be understood and is one of the hardest things to be emotionally comfortable with. We have a very long row to hoe, so we'd best take this slow and steady...

Let's break it down.

For starters there's the baby thing. The transition from infancy to childhood and eventually adult hood is one of the most universal human rites of passage. Everyone has gone through it, and it's a traumatic losing of an old identity and taking on a new one. Part of how we cope with the transition is by believing it is inevitable, desirable, and conversely it is wrong or sick to avoid it. "Diaper baby" works as an insult among kids because of this. Choosing to reject it, or evading it, or what ever you want to call our state, literally calls into question some of the most foundational milestones that everyone else has gone through. Consciously or not, being aware of us upsets not just an abstract order of the world, but calls into question their life history and identity.

Then there's the gender thing. Why is homosexuality and transexuality so hard to accept? Again, because the identification of self with a gender role is one of the earliest and most foundational things we all do when we grow up. It's closely linked to that transition between baby and child. Babies in many cultures are genderless. "Being a baby" is a challenge to one's womanhood or manhood. For the same reasons that our cultures today struggle with LBGT identities, yet another gender role transgressing category would be upsetting and challenging in of itself. That's before we even loop in the sissies and the complications of the baby-thing.

Then there's the children thing. Say you want to expose to people the idea that adults regressing or being childlike is not weird or creepy. How are you going to do it? Is it ABs going to the park? To the toystore? To Disneyland? Be loud and proud? Well guess who are the other adults that show up at these places when they don't have kids of their own? Yup, it's the creepers. *shudder*

On the other hand having more nerds in the world has made folks aware of the fact that grown ups might still play with toy spaceships, enjoy superheroes, watch cartoons, and play games. But these geeks are still close to freaks, and we're only *just* starting to have an awareness and acceptance that some of our neighbors have not yet 'put away childish things' in order to become responsible members of society. Just look at all the baloney around 'the entitled generation.'

We haven't even gotten to the fetish thing or the pee and poop thing... and frankly I'm pooped!

TL;DR - I support not being ashamed of ABDL. I will support public ABDL business over the ones that hide in the shadows. I want us to be open to what kind of activism will be successful. Trans activism has a different history and shape than Gay activism despite their alliances and overlap. BDSM activism will take a different shape then general anti-kink shaming activism despite their alliances and overlaps. We are very special, very fragile, snowflakes. Let's be proud, but be smart too!
 
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AdorableRabbit said:
You know... I want to apologize for my response, as I feel it's not addressing the original poster's question.

To be honest I found myself distracted and literally cringing over the discussion. I feel a thoughtless activism is just as cringe-inducing as a thoughtless intrusion of ourselves into other people's lives. If we're honest, we'll realize that it doesn't matter what is the 'correct' definition or understanding of whether diapers are 'just underwear', or whether ABDL is a fetish or not. You will never change people's hearts or minds by trying to argue these points of semantics. In fact you will only make them see you as desperate and detached from their reality. Once they don't have empathy, it's all over.
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I certainly agree here. Telling someone, diapers are the same as underwear isn't going to convince anyone. The only people you may convince are those who are already in your court, to begin with.

I agree with the original poster.

We *should* work hard to reduce the overall cringe-reaction around ABDL. We want to raise awareness that while we are 'different' we are not creepy.
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Now, this is where I disagree.
It's fine to try and raise awareness on being accepting and open minded no matter one's differences. But to try and reduce the cringe reaction around AB/DL specifically isn't something I feel is anyone's job to do. I don't think we should start being thought police. People cringing on something they do not understand is perfectly fine in my eyes as long as they are not ostracizing or harming the person in question that caused the cringe. I think no matter how you try to spin it, there will always be people who view AB/DL as creepy.

It's important to note what the definition of creepy is. "causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease."
Dressing up as a baby while an adult is going to cause people to be uneasy, and it's not going to matter how accepting they are. It's still going to cause cringe and uneasiness because it's just so different. You can try to raise awareness by subjecting people to it more often to remove it from seeming so different, but I don't think anyone is going to appreciate it.

How do you raise awareness, acceptance and reduce cringe for specifically AB/DL without forcefully subjecting people to it?

I personally feel that part of that is our behavior.
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I would argue that you are correct, but more than you think. It's not just the behavior you think of that creeps people out. It's the entire package. The baby behavior in general creeps people out. The mommy and daddy behavior with an adult baby causes people to cringe. There isn't any way you are going to prevent that from happening, other than not subjecting them to it.

I think if you try to tell people they shouldn't cringe or find it creepy is simply going too far. Why do we need them not to view it that way? It's not like they are in our backyard watching us and causing problems. So why do we need people to not view us as creepy or cringy?
 
To be honest, I do agree that the AB part is definitely something that people who are vanilla will always at least be shocked by, since it really is something inherently contrary to the human instinct to grow up. I mainly take issue with acting as if it's hopeless for diapers themselves to ever be accepted, considering what a horrible message that sends to incontinent people who have to wear them and are just as affected by the stigma as us if not more.

And to be frank, we're definitely perverted for being into this, albeit that's not really anything bad in this day and age. If people who are against BDSM, feet and any other alternative sexuality loathe us, so be it. We definitely do not have to take being treated as the lowest of the low lying down, though.

So why do we need people to not view us as creepy or cringy?
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Well, it would certainly prevent lots of people from being needlessly broken up with, fired, bullied, beaten up or even thrown out of their homes. Fetishes should be kept in the bedroom for sure, but getting busted happens, and the consequences for it are in many cases far worse than they have any right or reason to be. Negative views of groups going unchallenged is what fuels and leads to real ostracization of people. Thought policing is going a bit far, of course, but there's nothing wrong with bringing up counterpoints when others make negative statements about us.
 
Springcircle said:
I mainly take issue with acting as if it's hopeless for diapers themselves to ever be accepted, considering what a horrible message that sends to incontinent people who have to wear them and are just as affected by the stigma as us if not more.
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Diapers themselves are accepted pretty much. If someone notices another person wearing a diaper it's typically automatically assumed the person is IC. Most people don't pick on it. Most will not even point it out. In fact, anyone who tends to pick one someone for wearing diapers is generally looked down upon as far as I am aware.

Sure whne we are younger and kids you may have had other kids pick on you for that sort of thing. I got picked on for being a bed wetter when it was found out. But that didn't last long and kids honestly will pick on just about anything. You have some picking on others for the kind of shoes a person wears or the cost of their shoes. I don't think any amount of raising awarenss is going to prevent kids bullying other kids. Youm ay think kids pick on kids for wearing diapers because it's conditioned, but then does that mean it's conditioned for kids to pick on other kids for the style of shoes they wear. Their clothing?

I can understand wanting to raise awareness on the stigma with diapers if there actually was some sort of issue. But there really isn't. At least not anything I have seen. It's pretty well accepted for something that is typically so private.

Now if you want people to accept the wearing of diapers out of interest, that is where it becomes quite a bit different. To expect the same level of acceptance is just unrealistic.

Well, it would certainly prevent lots of people from being needlessly broken up with, fired, bullied, beaten up or even thrown out of their homes.
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Fetishes should be kept in the bedroom for sure, but getting busted happens, and the consequences for it are in many cases far worse than they have any right or reason to be. Negative views of groups going unchallenged is what fuels and leads to real ostracization of people. Thought policing is going a bit far, of course, but there's nothing wrong with bringing up counterpoints when others make negative statements about us.
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A person breaking up with another because they are an AB/DL ... there is absolutly nothing wrong with that. You can't force someone to like something you do. Sadly, certain interests make or break a relationship. That is why I advise those who decide to get in a relationship to mention it earlier on, rather than later when you already are married with kids lol. XD

Fired, yep ... that has happened here recently ... but that was due to them posting AB/DL content at work on social media or something along those lines. You an get fired for doing that regardless of what it was. But being fired just for wearing a diaper ... unlikely and not very common. Why would anyone at your job know you are an AB/DL. If someone at work knows, it means you are sharing to much of your private life at work.

Bullied? Only if you get caught and that is mainly a thing to do with being younger. Not something you really need to worry about once you are older. It's not such a rampant problem that I see it being an issue that we need to all start raising awareness. Rather when it does ocurr mainly with parents, the best we can do is advise them and hope they understand. Some parents will, some won't.

Beaten up, I have never had happen to me for being an AB/DL. I have had it happen for being transgender though.

As for getting kicked out, yep ... happened to me. I don't think raising awareness would have changed that, certainly not with my parents.

Now of course if you see someone making negative points about us, then counter it. I agree 100%. There is no reason to remain silent when that occurs. I even stick up for myself and others in cases like that.
 
Very few animals want to be anywhere near their own waste said:
Dogs love it!
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Isle said:
Dogs love it!
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Eh, I wouldn't say that's true 100% of the time though - crate training is supposed to work because dogs don't like to soil their ''dens''.
 
I agree on a lot of things that MarchinBunny has said, many people will wear diapers and use them for their intended purpose, absorbing urine and containing fecal matter. Many non *BDLs will automatically think all of us poop our diapers and love to and it's all creepy and gross, I understand that but we have to tell them that's not the case. I rarely ever poop in a diaper, it's been years for me, urine, I couldn't care less. Some people see diapers as underwear, I certainly don't. I also agree that many of us here do wear diapers, it's the minority who don't. Also it's not always sexual to people, I am both a sexual and non-sexual ABDL / little. Majority of the time it's non-sexual but with my girlfriend it can be.
 
I have to admit that the AB aspect creeps me out, but people wearing diapers doesn't bother me.
There was an AB on Dr. Phil a couple years ago, and he wanted his girlfriend to treat him like a baby, but she didn't want any part in it.
 
I think the only thing I can add to this is we are conditioned by our parents that only babies wear diapers, my own parents taunted me on that, I can't stand it when I see some degrade there children for needing to wear a diaper for a real reason, I would fight for that, I know as a kid my life would have been easer if I was allowed to wear them. I really makes me mad when I see some one degrade there children about still needing diapers, there are other ways to potty train with out calling some one a diaper boy because they need them at night.
I had one of my friends call me a diaper boy when I went back to diapers for long car trips, I almost tore him a new one if you will and told him to never call me that again, when people make a claim that you can't have dignity if you wear a diaper for any reason, medically included, that is when I generally will speak up, I have known people to prefer death then have the loss of bladder control and that's the mind set that needs to change,
I the idea that your a lesser person because you need to wear a diaper is what I believe we should be fighting for at this point in time.
 
MarchinBunny said:
Well, you hAave not refuted any of my particular points. So guess I must have missed those few hundred posts. As for repeating what you said, maybe if you actually refuted points others bring up, you wouldn't have to. Also, I would like to say you repeat it quite often in this forum, like as if your opinion on the matter is the correct one even though so many people disagree, yet you always bring it up again and again like beating a dead horse with a stick over and over again.

How many times do people need to disagree with you, before you stop?


And you already lost the debate straight off the bat simply because you are wrong on this.
All fetishes are not sexual.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fetish
"1.1 An excessive and irrational devotion or commitment to a particular thing."

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/fetish
"There are sexual fetishes and nonsexual fetishes: both are obsessive interests."

So ... what is your argument against this, might I ask? These dictionaries are just wrong in your world?
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Right, you definitely have mised a bunch of my replies in the other posts then. Your argents have already been shot down, so I'm not sure why you keep making them as well. And I will not quit being right any more than Galileo did when others "proved" to him the world was flat.

And actually I do now have an idea why you keep insisting on being wrong. You're using the wrong definition meanings. Did you know with all dictionaries, only the first definition of a word is the commonly accepted definition. The second or third definitions are used for uncommon pseudonyms or word history.

I get the impression you've been looking at a words definition, and thinking all or them apply. However, this is very incorrect. Usually there is a page before any definitions that explains how to use that dictionary. I'd highly suggest you look this up, and stop using the old and incorrect definition where once upon a time the word fetish was not directly linked to sex.

And as for what dictionaries I use. I do obviously use merriam webster and oxford quite often- especially since I've directly linked their definitions for fetish a number of times already.

However, since they clearly focus on all possible definitions ever used, they are also clearly not the most modern and commonly used definitions either, now are they. Add in these dictionaries are made by secluded panels of old guys, there also just a little out of touch with the rest of society.

For a truly modern definition, that is used by common laymen, you need to go to a source that is also written by laymen. Obviously. And of course, those sources would most likely need to be wikipedia or the urban dictionary. I've linked their definitions for fetish a number of times too. So there's no poingt to linking them again, unless you've missed them as well.....

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DLC93 said:
The disposable diaper was developed by NASA because they discovered astronauts were wetting theirselves due to the pressure induced through space travel.
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On a side note, this is wrong twice over and bears correcting. NASA did not invent disposable diapers. A mother fustrated with cloth diapers did.

Did you also know early space ships were pressureze to less than half of sea level pressure (the ISS has normal 14psi though). This decrease in pressure allowed an astronaut to hold even more urine (since there is less pressure on the abdomen). However, the lack of gravity distributes urine in the bladder more, giving them the sensation of needing to go more often.

This is still not why astronauts use diapers though. Launches, landings, and space walks typically last for more than 4, or sometimes even more than 8 hours. All while they are strapped into their chairs. You try holding it for that long, and no amount of gee force (or pressure) is going to make a difference.
 
Slomo said:
Right, you definitely have mised a bunch of my replies in the other posts then. Your argents have already been shot down, so I'm not sure why you keep making them as well. And I will not quit being right any more than Galileo did when others "proved" to him the world was flat.

And actually I do now have an idea why you keep insisting on being wrong. You're using the wrong definition meanings. Did you know with all dictionaries, only the first definition of a word is the commonly accepted definition. The second or third definitions are used for uncommon pseudonyms or word history.

I get the impression you've been looking at a words definition, and thinking all or them apply. However, this is very incorrect. Usually there is a page before any definitions that explains how to use that dictionary. I'd highly suggest you look this up, and stop using the old and incorrect definition where once upon a time the word fetish was not directly linked to sex.

And as for what dictionaries I use. I do obviously use merriam webster and oxford quite often- especially since I've directly linked their definitions for fetish a number of times already.

However, since they clearly focus on all possible definitions ever used, they are also clearly not the most modern and commonly used definitions either, now are they. Add in these dictionaries are made by secluded panels of old guys, there also just a little out of touch with the rest of society.

For a truly modern definition, that is used by common laymen, you need to go to a source that is also written by laymen. Obviously. And of course, those sources would most likely need to be wikipedia or the urban dictionary. I've linked their definitions for fetish a number of times too. So there's no poingt to linking them again, unless you've missed them as well.....
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Dude, drop it. It's not even like it's that big of a deal. Marchinbunny has their opinion, as they have right to, and you have an opinion that you have a right to have. Seems like a majority of this thread has been a pissing contest between side. It's not really worth it.

Your both entitled to your opinion. I for one more agree with Marchinbunny, and that's my opinion which I can have. There's nothing wrong with having different opinions but at this point it's carrying on and becoming repetitive. Not that much of a big deal.
 
Slomo said:
Your argents have already been shot down, so I'm not sure why you keep making them as well.
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I assume you mean argument? An argument being shot down isn't the same as them being refuted. You have not refuted any of my arguments and that is why I keep bringing them up. Disagreeing with an argument isn't a refutation.

Did you know with all dictionaries, only the first definition of a word is the commonly accepted definition. The second or third definitions are used for uncommon pseudonyms or word history.
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No, it isn't. The first definition is just the most commonly used, not the most commonly accepted. Learn the difference Slomo!

I get the impression you've been looking at a words definition, and thinking all or them apply.
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They all do apply based on the context you use the word in. -.-
Words have multiple meanings in the English language and in many languages for that matter and the dictionary lists those definitions. To make love is not the same as to love someone. They both have different definitions and they both are correct and are used in today's world. The first definition might be the most common one used, but that doesn't just invalidate the rest.

I'd highly suggest you look this up, and stop using the old and incorrect definition where once upon a time the word fetish was not directly linked to sex.
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The only thing that is incorrect here is you.

And as for what dictionaries I use. I do obviously use merriam webster and oxford quite often- especially since I've directly linked their definitions for fetish a number of times already.
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Then maybe you should start using it correctly?

However, since they clearly focus on all possible definitions ever used, they are also clearly not the most modern and commonly used definitions either, now are they. Add in these dictionaries are made by secluded panels of old guys, there also just a little out of touch with the rest of society.
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The only person out of touch is you. You seem to be the only one here on this forum who apparently doesn't know how to use a dictionary properly and it's why you are constantly arguing with people about definitions.

Let me just say this loud and clear Slomo. You are wrong and quite frankly I'm not the only who is annoyed with you.
 
AdorableRabbit said:
You know... I want to apologize for my response, as I feel it's not addressing the original poster's question.

To be honest I found myself distracted and literally cringing over the discussion. I feel a thoughtless activism is just as cringe-inducing as a thoughtless intrusion of ourselves into other people's lives. If we're honest, we'll realize that it doesn't matter what is the 'correct' definition or understanding of whether diapers are 'just underwear', or whether ABDL is a fetish or not. You will never change people's hearts or minds by trying to argue these points of semantics. In fact you will only make them see you as desperate and detached from their reality. Once they don't have empathy, it's all over.

I agree with the original poster.

We *should* work hard to reduce the overall cringe-reaction around ABDL. We want to raise awareness that while we are 'different' we are not creepy.

I personally feel that part of that is our behavior.

I also hope that awareness and tolerance will eventually come, however I think we need to be honest that "tolerance" does not mean "enthusiastic support".

I think we also need to be honest that ABDL hits a combination of factors that make it one of the least likely to be understood and is one of the hardest things to be emotionally comfortable with. We have a very long row to hoe, so we'd best take this slow and steady...

Let's break it down.

For starters there's the baby thing. The transition from infancy to childhood and eventually adult hood is one of the most universal human rites of passage. Everyone has gone through it, and it's a traumatic losing of an old identity and taking on a new one. Part of how we cope with the transition is by believing it is inevitable, desirable, and conversely it is wrong or sick to avoid it. "Diaper baby" works as an insult among kids because of this. Choosing to reject it, or evading it, or what ever you want to call our state, literally calls into question some of the most foundational milestones that everyone else has gone through. Consciously or not, being aware of us upsets not just an abstract order of the world, but calls into question their life history and identity.

Then there's the gender thing. Why is homosexuality and transexuality so hard to accept? Again, because the identification of self with a gender role is one of the earliest and most foundational things we all do when we grow up. It's closely linked to that transition between baby and child. Babies in many cultures are genderless. "Being a baby" is a challenge to one's womanhood or manhood. For the same reasons that our cultures today struggle with LBGT identities, yet another gender role transgressing category would be upsetting and challenging in of itself. That's before we even loop in the sissies and the complications of the baby-thing.

Then there's the children thing. Say you want to expose to people the idea that adults regressing or being childlike is not weird or creepy. How are you going to do it? Is it ABs going to the park? To the toystore? To Disneyland? Be loud and proud? Well guess who are the other adults that show up at these places when they don't have kids of their own? Yup, it's the creepers. *shudder*

On the other hand having more nerds in the world has made folks aware of the fact that grown ups might still play with toy spaceships, enjoy superheroes, watch cartoons, and play games. But these geeks are still close to freaks, and we're only *just* starting to have an awareness and acceptance that some of our neighbors have not yet 'put away childish things' in order to become responsible members of society. Just look at all the baloney around 'the entitled generation.'

We haven't even gotten to the fetish thing or the pee and poop thing... and frankly I'm pooped!

TL;DR - I support not being ashamed of ABDL. I will support public ABDL business over the ones that hide in the shadows. I want us to be open to what kind of activism will be successful. Trans activism has a different history and shape than Gay activism despite their alliances and overlap. BDSM activism will take a different shape then general anti-kink shaming activism despite their alliances and overlaps. We are very special, very fragile, snowflakes. Let's be proud, but be smart too!
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Except the whole point of describing who we are- correctly- IS directly tied to that cringe factor. I've been on topic this whole time.

You also say that cringe factor will never go away. Except popular opinion or society in whole changes all the time, sometimes in the matrer of days (though usually much much slower).

Do you not know about the cringe factor there was with gays in the 80s. How exactly do you think that got changed to being more accepted today.

You say you support abdls being accepted on day, and hope it comes soon. Yet you are clearly against trying to make it happen.

And you also ask again how do we bring this level of acceptance about. I've already said this a bunch of times. We do what the gay movement did and separate out the sexual aspect and get others to realize this is an integral part of who we are. Of couse, we have to start with ourselves before even attempting to get get society to understand.

Hence my whole argument. Though again, if you or anyone have any other ideas, I'm all ears. Till then, either you're part of the only possible solution we have, or part of the problem.

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Hey, marchingbunny is the one who wanted me to reply, and only after trying to refute the facts of a simple definition statement I made.

And as for facts, it is my opinion on how to reduceuse the cringe factor. It is not my opinion for the factual definition of fetish.

If anyone ever says something I know and verify to be completely false (knowingly or not), then it bears correcting. I'll drop those corrections when others stop using them wrong.

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MarchinBunny said:
I assume you mean argument? An argument being shot down isn't the same as them being refuted. You have not refuted any of my arguments and that is why I keep bringing them up. Disagreeing with an argument isn't a refutation.


No, it isn't. The first definition is just the most commonly used, not the most commonly accepted. Learn the difference Slomo!


They all do apply based on the context you use the word in. -.-
Words have multiple meanings in the English language and in many languages for that matter and the dictionary lists those definitions. To make love is not the same as to love someone. They both have different definitions and they both are correct and are used in today's world. The first definition might be the most common one used, but that doesn't just invalidate the rest.


The only thing that is incorrect here is you.


Then maybe you should start using it correctly?


The only person out of touch is you. You seem to be the only one here on this forum who apparently doesn't know how to use a dictionary properly and it's why you are constantly arguing with people about definitions.

Let me just say this loud and clear Slomo. You are wrong and quite frankly I'm not the only who is annoyed with you.
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http://m.wikihow.com/Use-a-Dictionary
Pay close attention to section 2 part 4.

And commonly used vursus accepted. Splitting hairs much. It does actually correlate to mean most commonly accepted, simply by being used the most.

And seriously, how do you think I feel. I come here and see people trying to tell me the facts are not the facts simply because they feel its that way, or via splitting hairs with circular logic like you just gave. I'm sure my annoyance towards your incomplete argument is way more than yours to my pointing out and citing I've verified I'm right.

You want me to stop, then quit ignoring the facts in front of you, and quit saying I'm wrong.
 
Slomo said:
And commonly used vursus accepted. Splitting hairs much. It does actually correlate to mean most commonly accepted, simply by being used the most.
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Yes, it says exactly what I said. It doesn't say accepted. It's also not splitting hairs because something that is accepted means correct. Something that means not accepted means incorrect.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/accepted

By saying only the first definition is accepted is like saying the other definitions are invalid and that isn't how dictionaries work. All the other definitions can be used, they are just not used as commonly as the first definition. That doesn't make them incorrect. And so your entire argument relies on those definitions being wrong, and they are not wrong. You just failed to use a dictionary the proper way for whatever reason. All the definitions are correct. ALL OF THEM. They wouldn't be in the dictionary if it was wrong.

Also, just so you are aware, they discontinue definitions that are no longer in use. Look up "gender" in this dictionary.
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/


And seriously, how do you think I feel. I come here and see people trying to tell me the facts are not the facts simply because they feel its that way, or via splitting hairs with circular logic like you just gave. I'm sure my annoyance towards your incomplete argument is way more than yours to my pointing out and citing I've verified I'm right.
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You are the issue Slomo. Not me. Not anyone else. It's because you are the one in the wrong and you seem to not even realize it. I wasn't splitting hairs ... you are just wrong. It's that simple.
All the definitions in the dictionary are correct. Not just the first one. Get over it!

You want me to stop, then quit ignoring the facts in front of you, and quit saying I'm wrong.
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You are the one ignoring the facts Slomo. You are the one constantly causing trouble because you seemed to have developed this weird sense on how one should use a dictionary and you are just plain wrong. Even the link you just sent, of the wiki, doesn't say what you say. It being accepted isn't splitting hairs. That is very different than just saying the first definition is most commonly used. That doesn't suggest the other words are not in use Slomo. Which is what you seem to be implying and it's the basis of your entire argument.

Telling us what isn't the correct definition when it's in the dictionary, makes you wrong. And your inability to learn to use a dictionary correctly is your own fault and is what is causing this stupid misunderstanding.

If anyone ever says something I know and verify to be completely false (knowingly or not), then it bears correcting. I'll drop those corrections when others stop using them wrong.
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It's YOU that is using them wrong lmao. That is why it seems like everyone else is wrong. It's time to take a close hard look in the mirror. If you are coming across a lot of opposition, it's time to reavaluate your position. Stop trying to claim everyone else is wrong lol, when it's you that is wrong.

If you are pointing at an elephant and claiming it's a cat and everyone is telling you it's an elephant, claiming everyone else is wrong is just plain silly. Did it ever occur to you ... YOU are the one wrong?
 
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When it becomes necessary for several posters to use multiple blockquotes in a discussion, that's a sign that the topic has branched heavily and there is no longer a "topic" to stay on.
 
ZetaSonic said:
We've all seen the word used by non-*BDLs to describe their reaction to just knowing we're here: "cringe".

It's stuff like this, as well as some harassment on DeviantArt, that makes me support the notion of open activism.
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Some people in our community are VERY cringe-worthy. Most aren't, but some *bdl people call companies and use "baby talk" with them. Some people wear diapers with no pants in public. Some people in our community, just like in any community, are cringe worthy. The issue for me is that the media reports on the creepiest of us, rather than the majority. Most of us just like diapers and/or acting childish.
 
DracoAmericanus said:
I think the only thing I can add to this is we are conditioned by our parents that only babies wear diapers, my own parents taunted me on that, I can't stand it when I see some degrade there children for needing to wear a diaper for a real reason, I would fight for that, I know as a kid my life would have been easer if I was allowed to wear them. I really makes me mad when I see some one degrade there children about still needing diapers, there are other ways to potty train with out calling some one a diaper boy because they need them at night.
I had one of my friends call me a diaper boy when I went back to diapers for long car trips, I almost tore him a new one if you will and told him to never call me that again, when people make a claim that you can't have dignity if you wear a diaper for any reason, medically included, that is when I generally will speak up, I have known people to prefer death then have the loss of bladder control and that's the mind set that needs to change,
I the idea that your a lesser person because you need to wear a diaper is what I believe we should be fighting for at this point in time.
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I agree 100%. I know there are a few here that likes to blame late diaper wearers on either lazy parenting and/or obesity. Some of it may be true, but there are also many other factors in the mix.
While I may be interested on why a child is still in diapers, it does not bother me.
 
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