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Thread: Not a hate crime.

  1. #1

    Default Not a hate crime.

    going solely off of the reports from fox and the bbc, as well as abc, going to link only one link, the story is pretty consistent between networks, check it out on your own if you want.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/l...ttack-44570046


    anyway, I'm against the idea of hate crimes. I think everyone deserves the same protection, police and peacekeepers exempted from this.

    however, I cannot fathom how anyone could believe that this crime was NOT racially motivated.

    Moving past the fact that this poor man was kidnapped, nearly scalped, forced to drink out of a toilet, forced at knife point to say I love black people", made to endure taunts and jeers. the four suspects said repeatedly over 48 hours of filming: "fuck donald trump" as well as "fuck white people"

    is this a hate crime?


    "Chicago police say authorities are considering whether an attack on a white man that was broadcast live on Facebook falls under hate crimes statutes.

    Chicago Police Department spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said Thursday morning that the four black suspects made "terrible racist statements" during the assault but that police believe the victim was targeted because he has "special needs," not because of his race."

    Chicago police say they don't believe a man beaten in an assault broadcast live on Facebook was targeted because he was white.


    Hate crimes evidently dont cover the special needs group.

    to quote the BBC

    "The incident has provoked a strong reaction on Twitter, especially among alt-right - the fringe group that celebrated Mr Trump's election win with Nazi salutes.
    They say the mainstream media has been slower to react, and the police slower to label it a hate crime, than if a black person had been assaulted by white people."


    I NEVER considered myself as alt right, the fact that they are trying to suppress the idea that anyone believing the situation would be handled differently if the victim was a black man, with a group of white males abusing verbally physically and mentally, shouting equivalent slogans such as "fuck obama" and "fuck black people" view by associating it solely with the alt right to me is infuriating.

    Maybe I'm just alt right and I never knew it, but it smacks of hypocrisy at its very core.


    I do not believe Dylan roof had to endure speculation on whether his actions were a hate crime. (they were.)


    Hey if it helps us look better on a global scale with one less "hate" crime. by all means ignore the racial aspect.

  2. #2

    Default

    All these race issues are just sad, the word race itself shows people to define people by color or country of birth, what's the point, color doesn't determine anything, doesn't determine superiority our inferiority, it doesn't define people, but we allow ourselves to make it define us, crime is crime whatever said and done.
    Anyone can be racist anyone can be cruel and anyone can be a criminal. That's that, I don't know what else to say about it.

  3. #3

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by miapeters View Post
    All these race issues are just sad, the word race itself shows people to define people by color or country of birth, what's the point, color doesn't determine anything, doesn't determine superiority our inferiority, it doesn't define people, but we allow ourselves to make it define us, crime is crime whatever said and done.
    Anyone can be racist anyone can be cruel and anyone can be a criminal. That's that, I don't know what else to say about it.
    I feel much the same way, its one of the reasons I think the idea of a special class of crime for "hate" is a bit off.



    Story Update: "Prosecutors have filed hate crime and aggravated kidnapping charges against four black suspects accused of beating and taunting a white man during an attack streamed live on Facebook"-ABC news-1pm ET
    Last edited by MommyandMattling; 05-Jan-2017 at 19:47.

  4. #4

    Default

    I do think it's a hate crime...TBH I don't even like the concept of a hate crime to begin with what makes is so special? What makes it different from any other crime? Because it's done to a minority? If it were the other way around and 4 white men kidnapped, scalped, gagged, a special needs black person we would get nonstop CNN coverage, Black Lives Matter would cause a ruckus. Further discrimination and bigotry towards Caucasians by the liberal media. Its funny the fact that the conservative media and other non mainstream outlets are covering these stories...I do call the people who did this racist, because it was racially and politically motivated "F*ck White People" "F*ck Donald Trump" That's what they were saying.

  5. #5

    Default

    I was listening to the sickening details of this on my drive today. Like most of the posters here so far, I'm not so keen on hate crime laws. I think motivations are generally better addressed at the time of sentencing. With or without hate crimes to apply, there are ample charges to bring against the perpetrators in this case. However, the laws are currently on the books and based on what I've seen and heard so far, this sure seems like it should at least have enough basis to be argued in a court case. I can't decide whether I'm more appalled at the crime itself or at the audacity of publicly glorifying this poor man's torment.

  6. #6

    Default

    I think that hate crimes are different from other crimes. They target a specific group and the crime occurs not only against the individual but also against the group to which that individual belongs. I've been to several vigils in the past few years for drag queens, gay and transgendered people and I can testify to the fear such crimes send out to a community. As a gay person myself, I feel the violence against a victim of a hate crime has the ability to terrorize an entire disadvantaged group because it sends out a message of fear. It is targeted specifically towards a disadvantaged group of people for no other reason than the very fact they exist on this planet. Unlike most other crime, hate crimes are based solely on hatred and bias, with violence against the individual being its only motivation and reward.

    If there is a crime spree in a neighbourhood, you can take steps to protect yourself from it; add more security to your home, walk with a buddy, start a neighbourhood watch, but a hate crime is different in that you cannot simply stop being who you are or hide your skin colour or disability in order to avoid violence. Hate crimes are also different in that they are often inflicted upon groups who are afraid to report the incident to the police for fear of it not being taken seriously or encountering more discrimination. Only a small percentage of hate motivated crimes are ever reported to the criminal justice system.

    The violence against minority groups is often a result of very important and defining characteristics of the victim's own sense of identity, additional factors that can create feelings of vulnerability and loss. For example, a gay person who is assaulted because of his or her sexual orientation will suffer not only the physical trauma of the assault, but also the affront to their character. The difference with hate crimes is the impact they have on whole communities. Hate crimes increase the level of fear, and they heighten the level of tension between different racial and ethnic groups.
    Last edited by Starrunner; 06-Jan-2017 at 12:17.

  7. #7

    Default

    I think it's more of a racism issue, which does effect both sides, which people do love to ignore, I myself have experienced racism, personally have been "targeted" due to me being white). (well half cast) It's a bit confusing.

    If he was targeted just for the sole aspect of him being white, than that can be classed a hate crime (by definition), just as if a white person attacked a black person because of his colour.

    That being said, it all depends who you talk to, I've come across a lot of feminazi's who claim everything is rape or sexism and I've been treated shit by feminazi teachers, made me wait behind 50 people just because I was a male, no reason, just her having a bad day.

    I've come across people, who think that sexism is only one way, and only applies to females, i've also come across people who think racism is one way, I have friends of colour who understand that racism applies both ways. I'm a "white" aboriginal, yet I generally got shit for that, so I just stopped identify as aboriginal. (I'm half cast, you can tell with my mother, but not so much with me) It's kind of hard, because I'm aboriginal I had extra support, and was part of a school aboriginal group, if that makes sense, yet the person who runs it is a white aboriginal, only a handful gave me shit, while the rest were quite understanding, but due to conflict I didn't bother going, and you kind of have to go... (though most of them see me as "family") and I've got a few friends who happen to also be white aboriginal, and I had friends who were aboriginal.


    The sole definition for a hate crime is.

    Taken from http://report-it.org.uk/what_is_hate_crime

    Hate crimes are any crimes that are targeted at a person because of hostility or prejudice towards that person’s:

    disability
    race or ethnicity
    religion or belief
    sexual orientation
    transgender identity

    If he was targeted just for the fact they were white, than I class it as a hate crime, but I think it's one of those definitions that are flexible and a bit odd, but i guess most people class hate crime as beating up the disabled or harming someone who is transgender, or minorities which is what i see hate crime as.

    That's just my two cents.

  8. #8

    Default

    My $0.02, very briefly, FWIW:

    This is very clearly a hate crime. Per the FBI's own definition (Hate Crimes), both race and disability are qualifying categories, and it appears that both were involved here.

    The alt-right embrace the fact because they can kind of twist it to their advantage, e.g., "It would be different if circumstances were reversed." Recognizing that it is a hate crime does not mean you align at all with the alt-right (and for my part, I don't recommend that).

  9. #9

    Default

    I agree that this is a hate crime by the definition of what a hate crime is. The definition is a legal one, therefore the justice system will act on those caveats. The victim was disabled so he fits the conditions of being part of a group of people that can be discriminated against because of this single factor. It doesn't really matter if we agree or disagree with the definition of what a hate crime is. It's on the books and it's well spelled out in legalize. The courts will do their job.

  10. #10

    Default

    If this was white on black hate crime we would probably see another city burning and looted . But hate is hate no matter who spews it or for what reason , people who are intolerant of diversity will never unify society only make bigger walls to keep others out , until one day they realize they may be keeping others out but also keeping them in.

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