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Thread: Wrecked by Chantix

  1. #21
    mikejames

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    Quote Originally Posted by Llayden View Post
    Let me see if I can clarify what I am trying to express. I don't believe that smoking a cigar is any less dangerous than smoking cigarettes, smoking tobacco is smoking tobacco.
    this is what we don't agree on. I think, and have read compelling evidence to support it that cigars, while not safe, are safer than cigarettes. The reason for that, IMO is a combination of the fact that
    there are no chemical additive to cigars (real cigars, not convenience store cigars) and the fact that the smoke is not inhaled.


    I agree on the rest. I think someone who smokes 15 big ass cigars a week is more likely to get oral cancer than someone who smokes 1 a day or even less at 3-4 per week. But I maintain that ounce for ounce of tobacco smoked, pure unadulterated natural cigar tobacco is less dangerous than cigarette tobacco.



    Quote Originally Posted by Llayden View Post
    However, the dangers associated with any form of tobacco use increase with frequency of consumption, rate of consumption, and quality (additives vs. pure). Under those circumstances you are absolutely correct; people who smoke cigarettes do tend to smoke much more than someone who smokes even 1-2 cigars per day (which is a lot as we know). But, that doesn't mean they are in anyway safer, you are only mitigating the health risk by reducing your exposure.
    I mostly agree. The type of tobacco matters though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Llayden View Post
    To me it's the same as someone trying to lose weight through dieting. They abstain from bad meals but allow themselves a "cheat" meal every week or so. That cheat meal regardless of how much they've dieted prior is still a high calorie, high volume, unhealthy meal. The size or frequency of consumption doesn't change the calorie value of the meal. The risk associated with smoking tobacco is the same regardless of what form of tobacco you smoke when you are smoking it. There is, as you've pointed out, other risks associated when additives are used in the tobacco.

    https://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/Brp...phs/9/m9_1.pdf

    This journal was very interesting. There is a pretty decent chart that compares pipe, cigar, cigarette, ex-cigarette, secondary and primary smokers.

    http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/5/802.full

    I hope this can make my thought process a bit more clear. I'd hate for this to sound as if I'm trying to in anyway argue (written medium is hard to express actual intonation). I am simply enjoying this discussion with someone else who is very well informed.
    Not arguing...fun discussion. I think we mostly disagree on semantics but I do insist that natural cigar tobacco is "safer" ounce for ounce compared to cigarette tobacco which has hundred of chemical additives. But yes, a big part of the "cigars are safer" argument does have to do with the lower volume typically smoked.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikejames View Post
    Not arguing...fun discussion. I think we mostly disagree on semantics but I do insist that natural cigar tobacco is "safer" ounce for ounce compared to cigarette tobacco which has hundred of chemical additives. But yes, a big part of the "cigars are safer" argument does have to do with the lower volume typically smoked.
    I also agree that natural tobacco is better than anything that has additives in it. I think where we differ on semantics is how you and I define safe, or maybe even how we quantify it. Each time I indulge in smoking, I know I am taking a risk. That amount of risk is the same in each product.

  3. #23

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    Propylene Glycol= Antifreeze and yes it is toxic ever read the back of the anti freeze bottle !
    from the CDC :Propylene Glycol
    CAS ID #: 57-55-6

    Affected Organ Systems: Dermal (Skin), Renal (Urinary System or Kidneys), Respiratory (From the Nose to the Lungs)

    Cancer Classification: None

    Chemical Classification: None

    Summary: Propylene glycol is a synthetic liquid substance that absorbs water. Propylene glycol is also used to make polyester compounds, and as a base for deicing solutions. Propylene glycol is used by the chemical, food, and pharmaceutical industries as an antifreeze when leakage might lead to contact with food. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as an additive that is “generally recognized as safe” for use in food. It is used to absorb extra water and maintain moisture in certain medicines, cosmetics, or food products. It is a solvent for food colors and flavors, and in the paint and plastics industries. Propylene glycol is also used to create artificial smoke or fog used in fire-fighting training and in theatrical productions. Other names for propylene glycol are 1,2-dihydroxypropane, 1,2-propanediol, methyl glycol, and trimethyl glycol. Propylene glycol is clear, colorless, slightly syrupy liquid at room temperature. It may exist in air in the vapor form, although propylene glycol must be heated or briskly shaken to produce a vapor. Propylene glycol is practically odorless and tasteless.
    ALSO :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
    Its not a "safe" chemical period !




    Quote Originally Posted by mikejames View Post
    If you read the articles, it says the same lithium ion batteries used in cell phones have the same risk. It's just a blatant attempt by health nazis to try to control people's behavior by putting a new boogey man in front of people. Yes, lithium ion batteries can blow up. The chances of it happening to you when vaping, when using the product correctly, are similar to those of being struck by lightning.

    What I bolded...yeah um no it's not. Care to cite a peer reviewed medical journal on that? There's NO evidence that propylene glycol is toxic in any way whatsoever. The only danger with vapes is that the "juice" is unregulated and you don't always know what else is contained in it. Avoiding any junk made in China probably alleviates most any risk from this aspect.


    And your last sentence...everyone knows smoking is bad for you. I watched my dad die 2 years ago from small cell lung cancer. This was a couple years after he had stage 2 throat cancer which was cured. Both of his cancers were caused by his lifetime of smoking. But if you think vaping carries the same risk as smoked tobacco, you very clearly don't understand any of the science involved. there are a specific class of nicotinic nitrosamines responsible for making tobacco carcinogenic and those are not present in vape, or when present only in trace amounts.

  4. #24
    mikejames

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by xpluswearer View Post
    Propylene Glycol= Antifreeze and yes it is toxic ever read the back of the anti freeze bottle !
    from the CDC :Propylene Glycol
    CAS ID #: 57-55-6

    Affected Organ Systems: Dermal (Skin), Renal (Urinary System or Kidneys), Respiratory (From the Nose to the Lungs)

    Cancer Classification: None

    Chemical Classification: None

    Summary: Propylene glycol is a synthetic liquid substance that absorbs water. Propylene glycol is also used to make polyester compounds, and as a base for deicing solutions. Propylene glycol is used by the chemical, food, and pharmaceutical industries as an antifreeze when leakage might lead to contact with food. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as an additive that is “generally recognized as safe” for use in food. It is used to absorb extra water and maintain moisture in certain medicines, cosmetics, or food products. It is a solvent for food colors and flavors, and in the paint and plastics industries. Propylene glycol is also used to create artificial smoke or fog used in fire-fighting training and in theatrical productions. Other names for propylene glycol are 1,2-dihydroxypropane, 1,2-propanediol, methyl glycol, and trimethyl glycol. Propylene glycol is clear, colorless, slightly syrupy liquid at room temperature. It may exist in air in the vapor form, although propylene glycol must be heated or briskly shaken to produce a vapor. Propylene glycol is practically odorless and tasteless.
    ALSO :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
    Its not a "safe" chemical period !
    no, antifreeze is ehtylene glycol.

    Propylene glycol is well known safe food additive. You eat it every day.

    so yeah, it is a "safe" chemical, period. So again, you don't know what you're talking about.

  5. #25

    Default

    Go ahead and drink or inhale that chemical its your loss. Not going to get into a Incontinence contest with you for the betterment of the community I have said what I am going to say that is it

  6. #26
    mikejames

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    Quote Originally Posted by xpluswearer View Post
    Go ahead and drink or inhale that chemical its your loss. Not going to get into a Incontinence contest with you for the betterment of the community I have said what I am going to say that is it
    Sorry you're all butthurt for getting proven wrong.

    I don't know what an Incontinence contest is or what incontinence has to do with your tenuous grasp of basic high school science.

  7. #27

    Default

    I'm wondering why you guys are even arguing that smoking this or that is somehow better than something else.

    How about this little fact. Smoking is extremely hazardous to your health. That's it, nothing else needed to add to that. Though apparently so is the medication chantix which is used to help you stop smoking too. Just more of a reason to never start, and if you did, even more of a reason to, just quit "cold turkey".

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