Potty training age?

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AddyShadows said:
and use them or training pants

*Looks at my signature*

I know a shot at me when I see one.

There is a WORLD of difference between I, an adult with a reasonably sound mind, choosing to wear diapers or training pants, and a young child who doesn't want to be potty trained. I can accept the difficulties and responsibilities of my choice and my actions. A five-year-old cannot.

While some of us diaper folk might sit around and say ''I'd let my kid stay in diapers and train whenever!'', that is not a decision a responsible parent makes. A responsible parent makes choices that are in the best interest of their child. They know, for example, that sending their otherwise healthy, just stubborn, kid to kindergarten in diapers is a poor choice. Not only are they basically marking their kid as a target for teasing and bullying, they're definitely going to raise the eyebrows of the school administration. Unless they have a medical reason, it's probably not going to go over too well.

Let's face it - unless the world decides diapers are better than toilets, potty training your kid at a reasonable time is the right choice to make. It's not fair to them not to teach them an essential life skill.
 
Cottontail said:
Well, but we judge every other aspect of childhood development. We don't let kids choose when it's ok to learn to read, write, or do math. If they don't start walking and talking by certain ages, we worry. If they suck their thumbs, pick their noses, or burp without saying "excuse me", we're immediately there with a lesson or a consequence.

And really, when a child has learned to speak and has mastered just about every other muscle in his or her body, why should we assume that the sphincter muscles are beyond control? I see potty training "readiness" as an invention--a handy reason that a parent can comfort him or herself with after the child throws a tantrum and refuses to sit on the potty. In reality, though, I think parents of "unready" three- and four-year-olds have simply missed how it is that small children learn. How do they learn to walk? They copy their parents. How do they learn to speak? They copy their parents. How do they learn to use the toilet? Their parents place them on a potty and encourage them to use it. Wait... What?

Kids are born copy-cats. They're ready to learn this kind of thing from a very early age. We just have to be comfortable modeling it, because there's no surer way to get a toddler to do something than to do it first. If you define potty training as introducing a child to the toilet and telling the child to use it, and if you define readiness as a willingness to follow directions, then yeah, your child is going to be in diapers for quite a while. But that's not on them.

Let me rephrase what I said then.


I wasn't attempting to imply it's okay to keep them in diapers till X age. Every child has to potty train eventually, I know that. I was just saying that maybe we shouldn't judge without knowing the entire context of the situation is all. Perhaps the 5 year old was developmentally disabled, we don't know. That's all I'm trying to say.

They're ready to learn this kind of thing from a very early age. We just have to be comfortable modeling it, because there's no surer way to get a toddler to do something than to do it first. If you define potty training as introducing a child to the toilet and telling the child to use it, and if you define readiness as a willingness to follow directions, then yeah, your child is going to be in diapers for quite a while. But that's not on them

I define readiness for potty training as them showing interest in the happenings in the bathroom. I'm also well aware that Potty training is a lot more complicated than simply taking their diaper off and sitting them on the toilet till they go.
 
KimbaStarshine said:
*Looks at my signature*

I know a shot at me when I see one.

There is a WORLD of difference between I, an adult with a reasonably sound mind, choosing to wear diapers or training pants, and a young child who doesn't want to be potty trained. I can accept the difficulties and responsibilities of my choice and my actions. A five-year-old cannot.

While some of us diaper folk might sit around and say ''I'd let my kid stay in diapers and train whenever!'', that is not a decision a responsible parent makes. A responsible parent makes choices that are in the best interest of their child. They know, for example, that sending their otherwise healthy, just stubborn, kid to kindergarten in diapers is a poor choice. Not only are they basically marking their kid as a target for teasing and bullying, they're definitely going to raise the eyebrows of the school administration. Unless they have a medical reason, it's probably not going to go over too well.

Let's face it - unless the world decides diapers are better than toilets, potty training your kid at a reasonable time is the right choice to make. It's not fair to them not to teach them an essential life skill.

It wasn't a shot at you, not everything revolves around you. It was a general statement.
 
Not every child gets good motor control or control of those muscles at the same time. I was one who excelled at mental tasks, but was clumsy (not that great of motor control) and had a hard time potty training, having quite regular accidents during the day and wetting the bed nightly. While my mother wanted me to potty train before three like my sister, it didn't happen until around five for me.
 
It wasn't so much that I thought a 5 year old wearing was incredibly weird, I mean it's a touch unusual but definitely not completely unheard of, but it was more the fact that the boy was wearing a diaper and nothing else, and wasn't at all embarrassed by it. He just walked around watching what I was doing, completely at ease and not bothered.
When I wore for bed wetting, until aged 10, it was quite normal for me to walk around in a diaper or training pants and plastic panties in front of my parents with no pants on before I went to bed, or first thing in the morning.
But I would run at the speed of light to quickly put my pyjama pants or something on to cover it should anyone turn up at the house. I always was so aware of being seen by others.
I always asked mum to go so far as to peg my trainers and plastics on the inside of the clothesline so nobody would see them.
 
Wombat said:
Saw a five year old in diapers
okay, got my saw, got a diaper on, where's the kid?
:biggrin:
 
SnowBlitz said:
I define readiness for potty training as them showing interest in the happenings in the bathroom.

Well, and I do too. The question is more about whether that sort of readiness must be waited for or can be created. I definitely believe the latter. It's no coincidence that one of the things many children seem reluctant to do--sit on and use the toilet--is also one of the things adults are very private about, and apprehensive about modeling for their children. That was my point. Children are born copy-cats. They'll be interested in, and hence "ready to do", the things they observe parents, older siblings, and friends doing. Want to potty-train a child? Temporarily set aside some of that bathroom privacy. That works wonders. But many parents are weirded out by the idea of somebody, even their own toddler, seeing them sit on the toilet. Those parents will be waiting longer for "readiness."
 
Ok I was 3 pounds at birth I was ok at nite but day time had lots of trubble feeling I had to go until to late.
But at that point the pediatric doctor saw no problem.
Was spanked punished for it.
Now kids young ones dont care about diapers unless some one points out your deferent some kids dont care about wearing clothing.
So very understandable he's care free if he has been in them his whole life then its normal.
He's a kid life is to play and watching explore what's going on.
You dont live with them you dont know whats going on.
Some autistic children its very hard to train also .
We tend to be so prude in the us.
 
Cottontail said:
Well, and I do too. The question is more about whether that sort of readiness must be waited for or can be created. I definitely believe the latter. It's no coincidence that one of the things many children seem reluctant to do--sit on and use the toilet--is also one of the things adults are very private about, and apprehensive about modeling for their children. That was my point. Children are born copy-cats. They'll be interested in, and hence "ready to do", the things they observe parents, older siblings, and friends doing. Want to potty-train a child? Temporarily set aside some of that bathroom privacy. That works wonders. But many parents are weirded out by the idea of somebody, even their own toddler, seeing them sit on the toilet. Those parents will be waiting longer for "readiness."

While you can create interest, you can't create readiness. If a child isn't ready to potty train, or their bladder/bowel muscles haven't developed yet, You can model all you want, it's not going to happen. Every child is different. Some children have developmental issues that prevent this. Some children are incontinent and can't be potty trained. Not because they aren't interested or aren't ready, but because it physically can't happen. And trying to force a child to be interested in something that they can't physically do and then making them feel bad because they can't do it is borderline child abuse.
 
AddyShadows said:
While you can create interest, you can't create readiness. If a child isn't ready to potty train, or their bladder/bowel muscles haven't developed yet, You can model all you want, it's not going to happen. Every child is different. Some children have developmental issues that prevent this. Some children are incontinent and can't be potty trained. Not because they aren't interested or aren't ready, but because it physically can't happen. And trying to force a child to be interested in something that they can't physically do and then making them feel bad because they can't do it is borderline child abuse.
Yes, but three- and four-year-olds, unless they have those developmental issues, can learn to control their eliminations. Practically speaking, potty training difficulties with children in this age group are not about physical inability. They're about interest/willingness.
 
Cottontail said:
Yes, but three- and four-year-olds, unless they have those developmental issues, can learn to control their eliminations. Practically speaking, potty training difficulties with children in this age group are not about physical inability. They're about interest/willingness.
And with interest and willingness some of them just don't care my son is 8 years old going on 9 in March while he is completely potty-trained if he's doing something that he enjoys doing he's not going to stop to go to the bathroom he's just going to wet his pants it's gotten to the point where even his school requires him keep pull-ups there because it happens several times a day. he just doesn't care, he wets the bed and wears goodnites for that, my little brother (his uncle) also wet the bed and wore goodnites, my mother aways let my brother wear his night pullups untill after noon on days off. he was raised around pullups as something casual and no one really teases him. It's just never triggered as a negitive for him.
 
w0lfpack91 said:
And with interest and willingness some of them just don't care my son is 8 years old going on 9 in March while he is completely potty-trained if he's doing something that he enjoys doing he's not going to stop to go to the bathroom he's just going to wet his pants it's gotten to the point where even his school requires him keep pull-ups there because it happens several times a day. he just doesn't care, he wets the bed and wears goodnites for that, my little brother (his uncle) also wet the bed and wore goodnites, my mother aways let my brother wear his night pullups untill after noon on days off. he was raised around pullups as something casual and no one really teases him. It's just never triggered as a negitive for him.

Branching off from that: Diapers and Pullups are only negative if you let them be.
 
Okay...

As being ABDL, but yet a parent myself (three times in fact) that has gone through having children in diapers, I feel I have a little bit of experience I can add to this discussion.

For me as a parent, having kids in diapers really had no connection to my own desires to wear diapers. It was simply part of raising my children and I have to be honest, I anxiously looked forward to the time when they no longer needed to wear them. For one thing, there was the expense and inconvenience of packing around all the extra supplies. But I also have to admit that it was certainly a bit of an unpleasant chore. So I was happy when things "clicked" and they were able to go without wearing them anymore and I certainly did my best to encourage the use of the potty instead of diapers.

But, despite my own experience as a parent, sometimes I think we as a society are too quick to judge others. Without placing ourselves in the other person's shoes, we truly cannot know of all of the reasons why a child is 3, 4, or even 5 or older and still in diapers. There are lots of things such as developmental delays that may not seem outwardly apparent which may cause some children to simply take a lot longer to figure it out. And there are also parenting styles that may lean into letting the children decide more when they are ready than trying to force the issue when the parents want it to happen. --There are some thesis about paraphilic infantilism where the thoughts that in some cases the clinging to wanting to wear diapers can be traced to being traumatically forced out of them or shamed about it.

Certainly, when they are old enough to be going to school, then unless there are truly medical reasons why the child cannot control it, then school personnel shouldn't be in the situation of having to deal with students in diapers. If a child is not yet ready to give up diapers but there is no medical need, then it seems that perhaps they need to have some additional time before attending school. It isn't that big of a deal to hold a child back a year if they are not yet ready.

I am not suggesting that a child with a disability or that truly cannot yet control these functions not be allowed to attend. That is not what I am saying. Some children obviously need more time and adaptations should be made that are discrete and do not subject the child to being teased or feeling embarrassed by it. But without a doctor's diagnosis, then sure, teachers or even school nurses should not be required to changing diapers. Also, even at the age of kindergarten this could end up being stigmatic to the child by classmates. All things that should be taken into consideration by parents, school staff, and the child themselves as to how they feel about it.

But sorry, I digressed...

Going back to my original point, being critical of someone whose children are still in diapers at a little bit more older age than other children who are potty trained is kind of a bit of self-assuming that one's own standards are better than another. If they aren't in school and are not affecting others, then why is this something that would bother another?

I think of a story about a young mother who was in an airport line with two children, both in diapers and she was struggling to keep her children in control.

While she held one child in her arms, the other child was at her side and in particular was very soaked and in obvious need of a diaper change. Having only so many hands, she scooted the child along with her foot as the line slowly moved forward. Other travelers showed obvious distainment for this woman and gave looks of disapproval. Some were even overheard to make comments as to how poorly she was caring for her children and how terrible they were behaving.

Then one man, came up to the woman and asked if he could help. She broke down into tears and explained that she was sorry for the behavior of her children and shared how just the day before, her husband (the children's father) had died and she was trying to travel back home by herself with her children.

The man picked up the child on the floor, and despite the need for changing, held him in his arms and asked the persons in front of them if they would not mind if they could go ahead of them in line. One by one he did this with and soon the mother and her children were through the line and able to get to where she could change the child and be on their way.

So... take this story into perspective. While so many were criticizing this woman and the way she was neglecting her children and seemingly oblivious of the way they were acting, only one person took the time to see beyond the first appearance and then help the woman and her children with their needs. Instead of looking negatively upon them, he showed caring and concern and as it turns out, the situation was truly beyond the young mother's control.

For me, this story truly rings truth. While it isn't particularly about a child who is 5 and still wearing diapers, it is about seeking an understanding of a situation that may be different than it might seem. I would hope that all of us, who as DL or ABDL or any of our unique interests are often misunderstood, can realize more compassion and seek understanding, rather than judgement.

Are there some parents that simply don't care for their kids? Well, unfortunately, yes, probably all too many. But the fact remains that unless you are fully aware of the situation, you may be totally incorrect in your observation.

It seems better to err on the side of compassion rather than criticism.

Where is our own doctorate degree that allows us to determine what is the correct age for everyone to stop wearing diapers? Who among us has physiological development in their PhD title?

Just a few thoughts from being a Daddy myself.

TeddyBearCowboy

:detective3
 
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I think even 3, baring developmental issues, is too old for diapers. I'm 36 and no one wore diapers much past 2 when I was a kid. I asked my parents and my mom said back then, before they invented pullups, the general consensus was that 3 is the absolute oldest and even then many thought it was gross. I happen to agree. Last summer I was at my cousin's beach house and he has a son, the youngest of 4, who had recently turned 3 but was still in diapers. I found it really off-putting, not that I'd say anything. But when you see a kid go over and squat so he can purposely shit in his diaper, I really find it to be gross. I don't know what more clear of a sign his parents are looking for that he's ready to potty train than that.

Pullups were invented by the diaper companies to keep kids in diapers longer so they can grab more dollars out of unsuspecting parents. My son won't be getting them. Diapers to toilet and that's it. That's my opinion anyway.

My son is 19months and we're now starting to try to get him interested in the potty. I won't be having a 3 year old running around in diapers I can tell you that.

If the 5 year old in the original story is NOT developmentally challenged then it's just disgusting. Extreme laziness on the parents part bordering on child abuse.
 
if the child was special needs it wouldn't be uncommon for them to be in diapers longer than other kids and possibly for life
or he was late potty trainer
 
mikejames said:
I think even 3, baring developmental issues, is too old for diapers. I'm 36 and no one wore diapers much past 2 when I was a kid. I asked my parents and my mom said back then, before they invented pullups, the general consensus was that 3 is the absolute oldest and even then many thought it was gross. I happen to agree. Last summer I was at my cousin's beach house and he has a son, the youngest of 4, who had recently turned 3 but was still in diapers. I found it really off-putting, not that I'd say anything. But when you see a kid go over and squat so he can purposely shit in his diaper, I really find it to be gross. I don't know what more clear of a sign his parents are looking for that he's ready to potty train than that.

Pullups were invented by the diaper companies to keep kids in diapers longer so they can grab more dollars out of unsuspecting parents. My son won't be getting them. Diapers to toilet and that's it. That's my opinion anyway.

My son is 19months and we're now starting to try to get him interested in the potty. I won't be having a 3 year old running around in diapers I can tell you that.

If the 5 year old in the original story is NOT developmentally challenged then it's just disgusting. Extreme laziness on the parents part bordering on child abuse.

I've also seen an article - it was probably on Wikipedia - that pretty much reaffirmed what you said, that so many years ago, kids did potty-train earlier. There probably hasn't been much research done on this topic, but there must be a reason why - and it does probably have something to do with lazier, more lax parenting. Afterall, I don't think this generation is suffering from some kind of mass wave of bladder and bowel defects, or that kids have gotten dumber.

As a side note, I didn't get Pull-Ups as a kid either and I still ended up with a fetish for them. Sigh.
 
could have had some flavor of autism, that can actually impact their ability to know its happening (some forms leave said kids incontinent in some way for life)
 
mikejames said:
I think even 3, baring developmental issues, is too old for diapers. I'm 36 and no one wore diapers much past 2 when I was a kid. I asked my parents and my mom said back then, before they invented pullups, the general consensus was that 3 is the absolute oldest and even then many thought it was gross. I happen to agree. Last summer I was at my cousin's beach house and he has a son, the youngest of 4, who had recently turned 3 but was still in diapers. I found it really off-putting, not that I'd say anything. But when you see a kid go over and squat so he can purposely shit in his diaper, I really find it to be gross. I don't know what more clear of a sign his parents are looking for that he's ready to potty train than that.

Pullups were invented by the diaper companies to keep kids in diapers longer so they can grab more dollars out of unsuspecting parents. My son won't be getting them. Diapers to toilet and that's it. That's my opinion anyway.

My son is 19months and we're now starting to try to get him interested in the potty. I won't be having a 3 year old running around in diapers I can tell you that.

If the 5 year old in the original story is NOT developmentally challenged then it's just disgusting. Extreme laziness on the parents part bordering on child abuse.

And what if they've tried potty training the child? What if they haven't been lazy and the child just refuses to use the toilet? My younger cousin was five before he was potty trained. Not because my aunt was lazy in potty training him. Not because he had developmental issues. He simple refused to use the bathroom. There comes a point where forcing your kid to sit on the toilet 12 hours a day until they go just to have them shit or piss themself anyway despite your efforts just isn't worth it. You can continue to try and potty train but you can't devote your entire day to it. Parents still need to make dinner, go to work, get the other kids ready, so on and so forth. There's a difference between laziness and the willingness of the child being potty trained. You can't force a person to do something they refuse to do.
 
I was in nappies until I was five.
 
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AddyShadows said:
And what if they've tried potty training the child? What if they haven't been lazy and the child just refuses to use the toilet? My younger cousin was five before he was potty trained. Not because my aunt was lazy in potty training him. Not because he had developmental issues. He simple refused to use the bathroom. There comes a point where forcing your kid to sit on the toilet 12 hours a day until they go just to have them shit or piss themself anyway despite your efforts just isn't worth it. You can continue to try and potty train but you can't devote your entire day to it. Parents still need to make dinner, go to work, get the other kids ready, so on and so forth. There's a difference between laziness and the willingness of the child being potty trained. You can't force a person to do something they refuse to do.

I disagree
I said "barring developmental issues". If a kid NEEDS diapers until they're 5, I hate to break it to you but they're behind their peers developmentally.

But then you say "He simply refused to use the bathroom". I'm not that kind of parent. My kids will never "refuse" to do what I tell them and get away with it. I run my house, not my kids. Sorry, but yes, that IS parental laziness (or ineptitude, whatever you choose to call it).
 
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