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Thread: Trump vs. Clinton

  1. #1

    Default Trump vs. Clinton

    No matter how it ends up, we're screwed.

  2. #2

    Default



    Quote Originally Posted by Hoorf View Post
    No matter how it ends up, we're screwed.
    I dont think thats the right mindset to take, I think voting for a third option, even if NO ONE else is voting for them is the better way to look at the situation.

    many people vote in the big 2, even when they dislike both candidates. It promotes a mindset of helpless voyeurism.

  3. #3

  4. #4

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acan View Post
    Voting third party is the same as not voting.
    That is exactly what I'm talking about, its such a helpless attitude to have, I do not know how you stand it.

    I would rather encourage voting 3rd then voting for someone you do not like, or not voting, change may happen slowly but voting trends are noticed.
    Do not give up, it is possible to change the world, you just have to be willing to contribute your fair share. In this case, by your logic, if voting for the third party is not voting, then voting for either Trump or Hilary can also be considered not voting, due to sheer numbers involved.


    In short, if your not willing to vote for someone else, you deserve whoever gets elected.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MommyandMattling View Post
    That is exactly what I'm talking about, its such a helpless attitude to have, I do not know how you stand it.

    I would rather encourage voting 3rd then voting for someone you do not like, or not voting, change may happen slowly but voting trends are noticed.
    Do not give up, it is possible to change the world, you just have to be willing to contribute your fair share. In this case, by your logic, if voting for the third party is not voting, then voting for either Trump or Hilary can also be considered not voting, due to sheer numbers involved.


    In short, if your not willing to vote for someone else, you deserve whoever gets elected.
    Its not helpless its a fact of our voting system. So long as we use first past the post third parties will only ever hamstring the party closest to them that is how it works on a mathematical level. Other voting systems can accommodate more than two parties but ours cannot. Unfortunately it is difficult to say who Johnson will hurt the most but he has no chance of winning and can only influence the election my hurting one of the other candidates.

  7. #7

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    I recall a couple years ago some commentators on the right predicting a push (or perhaps even a putsch?) by Obama for a third term. With Hillary in danger of jail or disgrace and Trump's own party failing to support him, this might not be as far fetched as it seemed at the time.

    While I don't think he's quite clever enough to have orchestrated this mess, taking advantage of it is certainly in his wheelhouse, given his narcissism, contempt for the Constitution, and political education in the Chicago Machine.

  8. #8

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    I have taken 3 terms each of Political Science and Philosophy in College and would hope I have a little bit better understanding then some others.

    I would strongly disagree that a third party vote is "not like not voting".

    A decent candidate would look the voting tally and consider the total of the mandate that their win represents.
    Unfortunately that has fallen by the way side and party politics is the operative view now.

    A third party vote should be an indicator to the "major" candidates that the voters are not happy with the party stance. However, the number of alternative parties and their platforms (if any) are considered extremist by most.

    It will be very interesting to see if the "other party" votes are greater then 1% of the votes counted.

    P.S. I agree with Jeff Dunham and Walters dialog on the election and I wish this was like poker. At this point I could through in all of my cards and draw a new hand.

  9. #9

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    Unfortunately its not about political science or philosophy its about math in this case. If you are conservative or liberal and vote third party that is a vote that does not go to the party that you would have voted for if there was no third party option thus costing that party a vote despite it being closer in line with your views than the opposing party. First past the post voting systems trend toward there being only two parties since additional parties actually hurt the party closest to them so voters are left with two highly divided parties rather than multiple parties some of which may be similar to each other. This is in spite of the fact that relatively few voters think completely in line with the party they identify with. Case in point if you hate Trump but choose to vote Johnson instead of Clinton you have essentially just voted for Trump since Johnson has acted as a spoiler for Clinton since Johnson has no real chance of winning.

  10. #10

    Default

    The Republican party was a 3rd at first until Lincoln. With the Clinton and Trump running, a third party is looking like a good option. A vote for a third party is a vote against both Clinton and Trump.

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