netdiapers.com

I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.

bambinod said:

It's somewhat disappointing but not really surprising to see China having no respect for IP.

Netdiaper may be thinking "well if I can buy it from china then it must be OK for me to sell it here!", and no, that's not how it works. Not if the diaper design was ABU's IP which was sold. On the other hand, it's possible that this diaper manufacturer in china actually owns the IP. In that case, they can sell to whomever they want to, and those retailers can go on to sell it to anyone they want to.

So we need to clear up whose IP this actually is. I'd bet that there's additional cost in making something like that your own IP, since it requires graphics artists, product design testing, paying legal, licensing, and filing fees, and in the end will limit the manufacturer from selling to other parties. I also recall reading that diapers are treated similar to medications by the FDA and require some testing for product safety. If ABU took the cheaper route of having them design it and retain IP rights, the new ABU may have no authority to control sales here.

Click to expand...

China doesn't give a rat's ass about IP. I work in the technology field, and the amount of stuff they outright steal from other companies is staggering. Most of China's internet infrastructure comes from a company called Huawei, they've provided the routers and backbone for everything there. Virtually every piece of equipment they make they have taken Cisco equipment, brought it in and copied it straight over. You don't see that equipment in western countries because we have legal recourse against people who might try to import and sell such goods.

With that said, I'm certain I could buy nearly anything from China that is either manufactured there or a direct copy of something from here. Copyrights, patents, and any other sort of protection mean nothing to them. The legal recourse for the company whose products are stolen comes when I try to sell them over here is lawsuits, and it happens regularly as the United States does recognize such protections.

Yes, you could buy nearly any AB diaper in bulk from the Chinese and try to sell the lot for a profit over here, all they worry about is the check clearing. Just wait until the lawyers show up on your doorstep, though.

China has absolutely no respect whatsoever for copyright protection. Copyright laws are shaky at best there. So when companies are designing their diapers...they are actually designing them, not just buying them from whatever place. However, since Alibaba is based out of China, they're just offering them for sale to people since there's really nothing that any USA based ABDL company can do about them producing something in China.

ClickyKeys said:

I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.

Click to expand...

I don't think you're correct. They're both white and high capacity diapers but having spoken with Casey at ABU at length, I know that ABU Space is particular to them. Casey was heavily involved in the design and creation of that diaper. ABU Simple and LittlePawz have been described by them and reviewers as the same diaper with different appearance. I've used ABU Space and while it has passing similarities to Bambinos' diapers, it is larger than a Classico (compare reviews: https://www.adisc.org/forum/showthread.php/96468-ABU-Space-Diaper-Review vs. https://www.adisc.org/forum/showthread.php/91494-Bambino-Classico-Review). Classico, Bianco, and Teddy, while having impressive capacity are all described by review and company information to have lower capacity than ABU's Space/Simple/LittlePawz.

Never as simple as just pressing a few buttons on Alibaba as if it's eBay when dealing with Chinese manufacturers.

Sure they have pics of the ABU diapers and may even be associated with the factory producing them but if you do not have your own design brief and someone to act in your interest in China for sure you will be ripped off, lucky to get anything from the transaction but definitely won't be able to just buy a container of ABUs products.

I do work in shipping and have seen lots of people go the easy route with Chinese companies only to loose their shirt. You have zero comeback at them as a claim when things go wrong.

babyboy said:

I have a friend that owns a restaurant, people complain the prices are "too high" it is a medium price place, and to make ends meat he still has to live with his parents, this place has been in his family for 4 generations, and it is busy, but the margins are razor thin, and probably the same for diaper companies.

Click to expand...

Restaurants are the worst businesses to own. They fold faster than any other kind of popular establishment.

I guess we're all speculating on AB/DL company profits, but I know that the Bambino owners aren't in this because they're ABs too. They're just business savvy. I don't think they'd go to all the trouble if they were only making $10 a case in net profits. And given their frequent 15-20% off sales, those would be loss leaders at those margins.

That's okay though, I know this is niche and I appreciate the products, so I still buy them anyway! But if they raise prices to $3 a diaper, I'm probably going to look into buying a shipment from China myself and storing them in my basement.

bambinod said:

It's somewhat disappointing but not really surprising to see China having no respect for IP.

Click to expand...

While true, in this case, I think Panda are the rightful owners. It's their diapers, their machines. All they do is print the picture you ask for and put the amount of SAP you ask for in there.

This would be like if you went to Kinkos and asked them to print out a poster with a picture of a cat on it. Then someone else goes in there with the same picture and asks for a poster as well. Kinkos doesn't know or care who owns the cat picture. And in the case of SDKs, it's Pampers that owns that image.

I still find netdiapers.com sleazy, don't get me wrong. ABU may have a legal claim against netdiapers, but I'd be careful of attracting whoever owns Pampers (P&G?) attention.

ClickyKeys said:

I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.

Click to expand...

Correct, the only difference is ABU asked for more SAP in the Simples. Bambino asked for less SAP in the Biancos.

To me, that extra sap makes a big difference. But I got my Biancos for $1.20 each on the last sale. Whereas my Simples set me back $1.95 each. The price difference to these two companies was probably 10 cents per diaper. Again I support these guys and what they're doing, but I'm not going to pretend they're my friends and just trying to help me out and be fair. They're in this to make a profit, and the only way you make the most profits is by charging as high above your overhead costs as the market will allow. So I'm not gonna be naive about what's going on here.

AnalogRTO said:

With that said, I'm certain I could buy nearly anything from China that is either manufactured there or a direct copy of something from here.

Click to expand...

My point was, ABU and Bambino are buying from China, too. These are not clone copycat IP ripoff diapers. They're the real deal. ABU and Bambinos went to the Chinese Kinkos of diapers. And netdiapers.com just did the same thing. I bring this up simply to tell you guys how they did it.

Trevor said:

Classico, Bianco, and Teddy, while having impressive capacity are all described by review and company information to have lower capacity than ABU's Space/Simple/LittlePawz.

Click to expand...

SAP content is customizable on your order. ABU asked for more. Likewise you can request no print, tape panel print, or full diaper print. It's China. If the price is right, they'll customize things however much they can for you.

Argent said:

Never as simple as just pressing a few buttons on Alibaba as if it's eBay when dealing with Chinese manufacturers.

Click to expand...

Nope, it's a huge risk! The entire batch could be bad with pinhole leaks, or misprinted tapes. Remember Bambino's "whoops! upside down" sale? They printed an entire batch of orders with the tape panel upside down.

If you don't get your order, or it ends up defective, you're pretty much out of luck with China. That's part of the value that goes into buying from ABU and Bambino too: insurance.

it is very difficult to do business in Asia without a presence there. I worked for a semiconductor company back in the 80's and they had factories in Taiwan and Malaysia, and each factory had a patriot in the plant manager position. It is the only way to guarantee consistency. As for pricing, that is driven by the market. Us. if we think it is too expensive, we buy elsewhere. In niche markets, it can be difficult to know who the customers are until you make the investment and put a product out there. That's called risk. Someone has to take a risk. Sometimes you price something too cheaply, and it does not reflect the value that the customer is looking for. One of my distributors sells cheap audio cables. One dealer tried to sell them for 9.95 and no one was buying them. They had great packaging, so they tried putting them back out at $29.95 and then moved. That's part of marketing. As far as profit, without it a business goes out of business. Maybe your restaurateur should call Gordon Ramsey.

Howdy,
My name is Casey Strom, and I was to correct you on a major point:

Weifang Panda is a company that we have fought extensively to keep our IP from being stolen. They are a trading company with absolutely no machines. I have driven to their offices in Weifang, Shandong Province, China. They look for ABDL prints that they CAN print, and they display them as examples. We do NOT work with them. We work with other machine operators that are able to give us real assurances that they will protect our IP. We have an operations manager on staff in China that works exclusively for Strom Holdings ABU for the manufacturing of diapers. An upside down print could never happen due to her being the one ensuring that specifications are met, product is packaged correctly, and everything is impeccably clean and a match to our branding and cultural standards.

Jason purchased his stock from the original machine operator in Korea that we do not work with anymore due to major differences in opinion over quality, and the use of a 30 year old baby diaper machine. They has access to the art files of the SDK though. The SDK is our intellectual property, was designed by ABUniverse in 2008, and was sold to Strom Holdings ABU in the sale in 2015 on hard documents that were signed, witnessed, notarized, and paid for. The bears are a replica of an art file that was owned by another company (that P&G sold the rights to) that went bankrupt, had its assets reassigned, and the copyright was abandoned. We investigated that matter with counsel once we realized that the art was a replica. If it comes up as a real matter, we'll cross the bridge when we get there, but that isn't a concern at this time.

Your analogy about the cat photo and Kinko's is far from the truth - but I see what you are getting at. It's not that easy - otherwise there would be more players and more counterfeits. Just because you can make a copy of a Gucci handbag certainly does not make it Gucci, even if the people making the copy are just going by a set of specifications they think are from Gucci!

Regarding Bianco vs. Simple - The money is in the SAP used. The type of SAP used, the ratio of SAP to Pulp, and the amount of SAP/Pulp used. It results in an expensive diaper. I understand the price concern, and I promise that we are working on a diaper that is more cost effective, but still maintains the same quality and allows us to deliver the same customer service and other qualities that set ABU apart.

Also, I will confirm, that Kyle is an alias for Jason. I have NO clue about Amy/Nick..

I take a heartfelt appreciation to everyone showing support, and to everyone engaging into conversation. This conversation results in growth and more knowledge of our industry, and less complacency when it comes to what our vendors do to bring products to us. I use diapers for fun as an AB/DL and am very active in the PNW community.

-Thanks,
Casey Strom

goten said:

While true, in this case, I think Panda are the rightful owners. It's their diapers, their machines. All they do is print the picture you ask for and put the amount of SAP you ask for in there.

This would be like if you went to Kinkos and asked them to print out a poster with a picture of a cat on it. Then someone else goes in there with the same picture and asks for a poster as well. Kinkos doesn't know or care who owns the cat picture. And in the case of SDKs, it's Pampers that owns that image.

I still find netdiapers.com sleazy, don't get me wrong. ABU may have a legal claim against netdiapers, but I'd be careful of attracting whoever owns Pampers (P&G?) attention.



Correct, the only difference is ABU asked for more SAP in the Simples. Bambino asked for less SAP in the Biancos.

To me, that extra sap makes a big difference. But I got my Biancos for $1.20 each on the last sale. Whereas my Simples set me back $1.95 each. The price difference to these two companies was probably 10 cents per diaper. Again I support these guys and what they're doing, but I'm not going to pretend they're my friends and just trying to help me out and be fair. They're in this to make a profit, and the only way you make the most profits is by charging as high above your overhead costs as the market will allow. So I'm not gonna be naive about what's going on here.



My point was, ABU and Bambino are buying from China, too. These are not clone copycat IP ripoff diapers. They're the real deal. ABU and Bambinos went to the Chinese Kinkos of diapers. And netdiapers.com just did the same thing. I bring this up simply to tell you guys how they did it.



SAP content is customizable on your order. ABU asked for more. Likewise you can request no print, tape panel print, or full diaper print. It's China. If the price is right, they'll customize things however much they can for you.



Nope, it's a huge risk! The entire batch could be bad with pinhole leaks, or misprinted tapes. Remember Bambino's "whoops! upside down" sale? They printed an entire batch of orders with the tape panel upside down.

If you don't get your order, or it ends up defective, you're pretty much out of luck with China. That's part of the value that goes into buying from ABU and Bambino too: insurance.

Click to expand...

Hi Casey, thank you for your insight!

I'm sorry that my speculation was wrong. Regrettably, companies aren't going to want to share their manufacturing sources or their profit margins and overhead as that could benefit their competitors. We have no choice but to guess. And sometimes we guess wrong. I appreciate that you've at least confirmed that you're not using Weifang Panda. Not that anyone here was about to buy 20000 diapers off a Chinese website, hahahah

As for the analogy, there really is an explosion of growth in the AB/DL market. I was stunned when we had one serious company, now we have Classy Comfort, Aww So Cute, Bambino (Magnifico, Bellisimo, Teddy, Classico, Bianco), AB Universe (Space, Lavender, LittlePawz, Simple, Cushies, Super Dry Kids, etc), Buntewindel/Fabine (Exclusive), Rearz (Safari, Princess, Seduction, Spoiled), Snuggies/Tykables (Waddler), BareBum, Crinklz, Cuddlz, MyDiaper (Night Animal, Night), Dotty Diaper Company (Pink Dotty the Pony), Sexy Adult Diaper (despite the name, they're AB themed), Diappizz (they stole your Cushies design but added two tapes per side), NetDiapers (another one stealing your SDK design), etcetcetc!

I'm sure you're aware of all of these companies and more, given it's your business. I'm sorry to be confrontational, but when you tell me it's not that simple, I don't really believe it. I think anyone with $25000 in capital can probably get a shipment of diapers printed how they want. I trust you spend more than that, are taking trips out to China to speak with your suppliers and customize, etc.

I got the company wrong. But at the end of the day, we all know all of these are being made by Chinese companies to customer (eg you) specifications. And that's okay! I love your company, and I've bought at least ten cases of product from you! You have superseded the quality of Bambino and matched their price, and so far you've maintained the same quality in every batch, so you are my first stop supplier right now! Keep up the good work guys!

Howdy again,
I am not in a battle with you - and certainly have no intention of being in one! Since I won't talk more specifics on the manufacturing side, "Let's put a pin in it! Boop! Pin in, there you go." (I love Bolt).

Thank you for all the support!

-Casey.

goten said:

Hi Casey, thank you for your insight!

I'm sorry that my speculation was wrong. Regrettably, companies aren't going to want to share their manufacturing sources or their profit margins and overhead as that could benefit their competitors. We have no choice but to guess. And sometimes we guess wrong. I appreciate that you've at least confirmed that you're not using Weifang Panda. Not that anyone here was about to buy 20000 diapers off a Chinese website, hahahah

As for the analogy, there really is an explosion of growth in the AB/DL market. I was stunned when we had one serious company, now we have Classy Comfort, Aww So Cute, Bambino (Magnifico, Bellisimo, Teddy, Classico, Bianco), AB Universe (Space, Lavender, LittlePawz, Simple, Cushies, Super Dry Kids, etc), Buntewindel/Fabine (Exclusive), Rearz (Safari, Princess, Seduction, Spoiled), Snuggies/Tykables (Waddler), BareBum, Crinklz, Cuddlz, MyDiaper (Night Animal, Night), Dotty Diaper Company (Pink Dotty the Pony), Sexy Adult Diaper (despite the name, they're AB themed), Diappizz (they stole your Cushies design but added two tapes per side), NetDiapers (another one stealing your SDK design), etcetcetc!

I'm sure you're aware of all of these companies and more, given it's your business. I'm sorry to be confrontational, but when you tell me it's not that simple, I don't really believe it. I think anyone with $25000 in capital can probably get a shipment of diapers printed how they want. I trust you spend more than that, are taking trips out to China to speak with your suppliers and customize, etc.

I got the company wrong. But at the end of the day, we all know all of these are being made by Chinese companies to customer (eg you) specifications. And that's okay! I love your company, and I've bought at least ten cases of product from you! You have superseded the quality of Bambino and matched their price, and so far you've maintained the same quality in every batch, so you are my first stop supplier right now! Keep up the good work guys!

Click to expand...

goten said:

Hi Casey, thank you for your insight!

I'm sorry that my speculation was wrong. Regrettably, companies aren't going to want to share their manufacturing sources or their profit margins and overhead as that could benefit their competitors. We have no choice but to guess. And sometimes we guess wrong. I appreciate that you've at least confirmed that you're not using Weifang Panda. Not that anyone here was about to buy 20000 diapers off a Chinese website, hahahah

As for the analogy, there really is an explosion of growth in the AB/DL market. I was stunned when we had one serious company, now we have Classy Comfort, Aww So Cute, Bambino (Magnifico, Bellisimo, Teddy, Classico, Bianco), AB Universe (Space, Lavender, LittlePawz, Simple, Cushies, Super Dry Kids, etc), Buntewindel/Fabine (Exclusive), Rearz (Safari, Princess, Seduction, Spoiled), Snuggies/Tykables (Waddler), BareBum, Crinklz, Cuddlz, MyDiaper (Night Animal, Night), Dotty Diaper Company (Pink Dotty the Pony), Sexy Adult Diaper (despite the name, they're AB themed), Diappizz (they stole your Cushies design but added two tapes per side), NetDiapers (another one stealing your SDK design), etcetcetc!

I'm sure you're aware of all of these companies and more, given it's your business. I'm sorry to be confrontational, but when you tell me it's not that simple, I don't really believe it. I think anyone with $25000 in capital can probably get a shipment of diapers printed how they want. I trust you spend more than that, are taking trips out to China to speak with your suppliers and customize, etc.

I got the company wrong. But at the end of the day, we all know all of these are being made by Chinese companies to customer (eg you) specifications. And that's okay! I love your company, and I've bought at least ten cases of product from you! You have superseded the quality of Bambino and matched their price, and so far you've maintained the same quality in every batch, so you are my first stop supplier right now! Keep up the good work guys!

Click to expand...

Anybody can get ripoffs sent here to the United States. There is almost nothing that can get done about the ripoffs being made and shipped around the world. Ever been to China (or any of a lot of countries in Asia) and seen the number of counterfeit products sold for next to nothing? It's huge!

The protection comes when you bring that product into the United States for sale. You own the copyright, the patents, the IP? Great, feel free to sell as much as you want. You don't own any of that and you're just selling a copy? Get ready to have cease-and-desist orders handed down, financial judgments for lost sales, damage to the brand and reputation of the company, etc. I've seen this firsthand at the business I work at--we have a number of patents on the circuits we design, we hold copyright on the silicon mask layout (considered artwork). We actively pursue legal action against companies who sell counterfeit versions of our products or use our IP, and have barred sale of a number of products in a number of countries based on it.

Casey is going to have a massive battle in trying to prevent anyone from actually manufacturing a copy of his product overseas. Anyone can take the artwork and scan it in, dissect the product and set their machines to make the same thing. There's no way to prevent production of such items from happening when the countries where it is done do not care if it happens. However, Casey does have the full protection of the law here in the United States preventing someone from selling that copycat product as it violates copyright law and is a theft of IP. I strongly support Casey going after these people, if for nothing more than I want to see an honest company thrive.

ClickyKeys said:

I was wondering who their supplier was because the other day I noticed that the ABU Simple and the Bambino Bianco are literally the same exact diaper.

Click to expand...

Not from what I see here? The bambino line (bianco, classico, teddy, and bellissimo) are all the same physical pattern but the space and simple are a different pattern.

They're all white, but not the same diaper. Unless things have changed quite a bit with bianco lately. (mine are a bit old)

Hoorf said:

Did anyone else get this notice?

"A Message from Casey Strom, CEO of ABUniverse:

"We were able to reach an agreement favorable to both parties without the need to go to court."

Hopefully the entire debacle's over with. Hopefully.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this and glad no court!

Also hope this is finished.

Ok and the SDKv1s are gone from the netdiapers site now.

Hoorf said:

Did anyone else get this notice?

"A Message from Casey Strom, CEO of ABUniverse:

"I wanted to take a moment to update you on the recent progress we’ve made regarding our negotiations with NetDiapers.com.

"Today, August 17th 2016 at 4pm Pacific, we reached a settlement that protects the intellectual property and identity of ABUniverse, and does not stop NetDiapers.com from operating.

"The Super Dry Kids™ brand remains completely and wholly owned by ABUniverse, as do all of our other brand names.

"We were able to reach an agreement favorable to both parties without the need to go to court.

"I want to personally extend my gratitude to Jason for working with us on this matter professionally and rapidly. It has recently come to my attention that some members within our community have posted personal information including addresses and phone numbers for Jason.

"I personally request that anyone that has posted private information, including any private addresses or phone numbers for Jason, please remove this information from public spaces. This is a completely civil matter, and we do not wish any harm or intrusion of privacy for Jason and his family.

"I sincerely thank everyone for their candid messages of support. The responses we have received have been extraordinarily kind! Thank you.

"Respectfully,
Casey B Strom
CEO, ABUniverse"

Hopefully the entire debacle's over with. Hopefully.

Click to expand...

Yes, yes, all well and good...
Now, about the Cushies Preschool? Any update? xD

OhHeyThere said:

Yes, yes, all well and good...
Now, about the Cushies Preschool? Any update? xD

Click to expand...

We're going to make an announcement about Preschool (Not Cushies Preschool, just "Preschool") within the first half of September.. Who knows - maybe it'll be available then

Damnit now I am curious, what happened to the rip off SDKv1s?

Did they not actually exist?

Argent said:

Damnit now I am curious, what happened to the rip off SDKv1s?

Did they not actually exist?

Click to expand...

They indeed exist, and now they are for sale, by ABU, as a product we are liquidating. https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/112105545480?

klo555 said:

Howdy,
My name is Casey Strom, and I was to correct you on a major point:

Weifang Panda is a company that we have fought extensively to keep our IP from being stolen. They are a trading company with absolutely no machines. I have driven to their offices in Weifang, Shandong Province, China. They look for ABDL prints that they CAN print, and they display them as examples. We do NOT work with them. We work with other machine operators that are able to give us real assurances that they will protect our IP. We have an operations manager on staff in China that works exclusively for Strom Holdings ABU for the manufacturing of diapers. An upside down print could never happen due to her being the one ensuring that specifications are met, product is packaged correctly, and everything is impeccably clean and a match to our branding and cultural standards.

Jason purchased his stock from the original machine operator in Korea that we do not work with anymore due to major differences in opinion over quality, and the use of a 30 year old baby diaper machine. They has access to the art files of the SDK though. The SDK is our intellectual property, was designed by ABUniverse in 2008, and was sold to Strom Holdings ABU in the sale in 2015 on hard documents that were signed, witnessed, notarized, and paid for. The bears are a replica of an art file that was owned by another company (that P&G sold the rights to) that went bankrupt, had its assets reassigned, and the copyright was abandoned. We investigated that matter with counsel once we realized that the art was a replica. If it comes up as a real matter, we'll cross the bridge when we get there, but that isn't a concern at this time.

Your analogy about the cat photo and Kinko's is far from the truth - but I see what you are getting at. It's not that easy - otherwise there would be more players and more counterfeits. Just because you can make a copy of a Gucci handbag certainly does not make it Gucci, even if the people making the copy are just going by a set of specifications they think are from Gucci!

Regarding Bianco vs. Simple - The money is in the SAP used. The type of SAP used, the ratio of SAP to Pulp, and the amount of SAP/Pulp used. It results in an expensive diaper. I understand the price concern, and I promise that we are working on a diaper that is more cost effective, but still maintains the same quality and allows us to deliver the same customer service and other qualities that set ABU apart.

Also, I will confirm, that Kyle is an alias for Jason. I have NO clue about Amy/Nick..

I take a heartfelt appreciation to everyone showing support, and to everyone engaging into conversation. This conversation results in growth and more knowledge of our industry, and less complacency when it comes to what our vendors do to bring products to us. I use diapers for fun as an AB/DL and am very active in the PNW community.

-Thanks,
Casey Strom

Click to expand...

Hi Casey, is there any talk about bringing back the sdk's v1 back. Those are my favorite diaper, I never had problems with them.
I loved how they bulged out in back,the crinkle factor and the more squared padding(they were very close to the 70's pampers I grew up with). The only thing I wished for v1 is they were thicker. Thanx and keep up the great work!!!

Hi Twee,

Did you see the eBay ad where it's stated for these liquidation v1s "added thickness with an extra surge pad”

They look to be a fabulous deal only would have to pay postage to get them to Australia... Oh well perfectly happy with my v2s and other ABU products readily available here!