Should an AB be protected under Title IX?

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ElizabethGold

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  1. Adult Baby
  2. Diaper Lover
  3. Incontinent
The past few days, I've been getting shamed for buying diapers even though I'm incontinent and I need them. A few jerk girls from the university apparently "know my secret" and have told me repeatedly that I should quit the business program even though I'm almost ready to graduate and I'm one of the top female performers(I was accepted into the most prestigious honor society in the entire business world). My question is: should people who identify as an AB be protected under Title IX? For those who don't know what that is, it's a law prohibiting discrimination in higher education. In my opinion, it should. It's just a lifestyle just like sexual orientation, and I actually use diapers because I am incontinent, injured and sick. Mind you, I'm not an exhibitionalist by any means and I am very careful not to leak. What probably happened is they know someone at checkout or saw my diaper poking out the back of my jeans when I bent over and I just wasn't careful. Going further, the harassment is getting to be annoying and a bit depressing now, tempted to let it go because I'm graduating, but...would you like to see a law prohibiting discrimination against adult babies or littles? I think we all would.
 
Enough is for IC I think. Discrimation for IC is fully usefull concept for bullying and you'd report it.

Or those assholes found out your another baby stuff (if you've any) ?

Or did you told anyone ? - IMHO the worst thing you can do...
 
If anything, in your case it should be protected because of it being a disability of sorts. After that, yes I also figure that it is just as likely for somebody to discriminate against an Adult baby, which should be just as protected, granted that not many people know what an Adult baby is.

I would go and report it, it is harassment, and schools usually have rules against that. These other girls should have grown out of this by now, and whatever consequence that comes to them, they deserve. I'd go to student services and ask them who a good person is to report harassment to.
 
I haven't told anyone except my girlfriend who lives three states over. I'm terrified of my reputation so I would never have told anyone.
 
ElizabethGold said:
I haven't told anyone except my girlfriend who lives three states over. I'm terrified of my reputation so I would never have told anyone.

If you just report the incontinent portion of the story, then people are going to understand just fine. Most people don't look at incontinent people and think, "freak alert," they just say, "oh, well bummer they have to wear diapers." Those other girls are just a reflection of immaturity perpetuating past high school. A school Councillor is most likely going to keep your story private, the biggest risk you take is that those girls will be upset at whatever happens to them and they start talking more, but if they do that they are just more guilty and likely to be removed from the school, and at that point, nobody is going to listen to them if they aren't around.

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Worried or not, you risk very little by just talking to a Councillor about it. Actions only will start as soon as you start giving names. A school Councillor wont say anything to anybody else about you being incontinent, so there really is very little harm in at least asking them what they think you should do.
 
Actually, we are supposed to be protected under Title IX. More so the harassment and threats those girls have made are enough to have them removed from the program if not the university. Trust me, disabilities of any kind are protected. The fact alone that you are starting to experience feelings of depression from their harassment is valid enough.
 
Congratulations on being accepted to the honors society! I think a lot of this bullying comes from jealousy. It sounds like you are destroying these girls academically, and they might want to get rid of the competition. First, keep it up academically. The best revenge, is success :) Set the curve so high that THEY drop out!

I am torn between reporting them to "student affairs" or just standing up to them. Making fun of someone's disability is not professional, and it sounds like they do not deserve to be in a business program. On the other hand, for me, it would be really satisfying to give them a piece of my mind. With that, don't be afraid to remind them that if knowledge of your disability spreads around campus, you and the dean will know exactly who spread it. Thinking about it more, if you choose to stand up to them, I would still notify a counselor in case there is any backlash down the road. Is it all just verbal bullying? or was any of it via text/email/snapchat etc?


Whatever you do, I would not bring up that you are AB. As mentioned before on this site, it is something private and personal really only to be shared by significant others. They would definitely extend title 9 to IC but your school may not be ready to test if it covers AB.
 
ElizabethGold said:
. . . it's [Title IX] a law prohibiting discrimination in higher education. In my opinion, it should. It's [AB/DL] just a lifestyle just like sexual orientation. . . .
Sexual orientation is not a lifestyle choice any more than being incontinent is a lifestyle choice. Title IX is also irrelevant in this case, what you're looking for are protections under ADA and your school's anti-discrimination policies. Nothing here actually implicates Title IX protections because you're not claiming discrimination by the institution.

No, I don't think Title IX should be interpreted to provide protections for AB/DL - that's not consistent with its intent. The relevant protections are, instead, under harassment and privacy law.
 
Adult Baby as protected legal status, I would be inclined to say no. I would also say that the AB/DL lifestyle draws far more parallels with, say, the BDSM lifestyle than with sexual orientation. I wouldn't conflate the two, but that's a separate discussion.

However, legal protection for a disability (which incontinence is)--yes, absolutely, it should be legally protected and I believe it is. Enforcement can be an issue, unfortunately. Can you identify a counselor or similar as part of your college's campus resources--someone who would be willing to act as a mediator in a meeting with the girls who are harassing you? They are in the wrong here and deserve to be set straight--or at least have to answer for their actions in a direct, mediated conversation with the person they are harassing. Beyond that, I'm not sure much can be done other than to hold your head high and wait for graduation.
 

Hi

hear in the UK we do have laws against this called the disability discrimination act. also you college will have a policy on bullying.
all that is needed is for you to say something, and it should be dealt with.

And congratulations on being accepted to the honors.

don't let people get away with it, it is wrong!

thank you for shairing

Sisi
 
Should ABDL behacvior be protected? No. Even "no" to the power of "Hell" producing a "Hell no!" I don't think there's any good justification for that behavior being protected by force of law. However, I'm a little more curious how things might shake out in the future for people who are identified with deviant interests (I mean deviant in the neutral, non-stigmatizing way). I think in the future, we might be able to get more behind not stigmatizing people for what they do in their private time that doesn't affect the workplace or school. I don't know if it's desirable to have law for that or not but I bet it's something society will be grappling with in the future.

In any event, the OP has a legitimate concern of harassment regarding an ADA protected disability (incontinence). Talk to your school administration and get those people straightened out as to their behavior. Do not bring up the ABDL stuff at all. It's not relevant to this.
 
Assuming you're in the U.S., you are covered under ADA, If you've seen a doctor who says you're IC. I checked, genitourinary function is seen as a major life function under that set of laws, as I'm assuming bowel function is. And if you've an issue with that, it's considered a disability. If for some reason I'm not aware of, someone knit picks and ADA doesn't cover you, you maybe covered by another set of laws put on the books in the 1970s. Could someone help me out remembering what those laws are called? Make no mistake. You're covered because of IC, not ABDL, so, I'd say Trevor is right. Don't bring it up. I'd wear a shirt that says, "Not every disability is visible,," and if the mean girls ask, say, "Ever hear of IC," only, use the big word that my dyslexic self can't spell for beans.:lol: In no way does wearing a shirt like that actually divulge your personal medical information. Doing that is a bad idea, but it maybe enough to make the mean girls think. Some mean people are going to be mean no matter what, so only do the shirt thing if you think it has a good chance of working, or you're so tired of dealing with their tihs, that you don't care how it effects you socially.
 
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humm

yea you don't need to being up ABDL but I don't think you where going to.
It car't be fun going to collage and have IC and needing to wear protection.
and then getting harassed over it, is not right.
And everyone is engaging to tell someone that can do something about it.

OK that's point 1.

point 2 is me being a bit controversial.

If I decided to come out as trans, I'm not, but if I was, and wonted to cross dress at work, here in the UK I would be able to do it, unless my employer had a valid reasons for me not to do so. and Although this has never been tested in a court of law to may knowledge, the same protection would be extended to someone that wished to dress like a baby, I don't think it would be smart career move. but the employer would not be able to sack some one by the way they where dressed. this extends to religious beliefs as well.

I am A Little and I am not ashamed of it. I don't go around shout about it but I do not make it a secret. as personally I will not live in fear.

sorry if that as upset any one as I not out to cause an offence.
But when I read about someone that is doing really well, get bullied by stupidity and ignorance it makes me angry.

Sisi

 
sisi said:
[snipped]
point 2 is me being a bit controversial.

If I decided to come out as trans, I'm not, but if I was, and wonted to cross dress at work, here in the UK I would be able to do it, unless my employer had a valid reasons for me not to do so. and Although this has never been tested in a court of law to may knowledge, the same protection would be extended to someone that wished to dress like a baby, I don't think it would be smart career move. but the employer would not be able to sack some one by the way they where dressed. this extends to religious beliefs as well.
[snipped]

Sisi


I don't think these are comparable. As an academic matter, I'd be curious to see if someone could make it fly in the UK but I don't think it's a reasonable comparison. Trans people have an identity that is applicable to the adult world. To apply that to childhood, which is a transitory condition and one which has no place in the working world or higher education seems misguided to me.

The question of who wears a dress or trousers is an open one since dresses and trousers are both accepted apparel for adults at work (of course depending on the job). Diapers, onesies, etc., fit into only a very small slice of practicality and the only time it would be part of work when used together is if someone took a job as an adult baby model or porn actor. Under such conditions, baby wear would be absolutely required to perform one's duties. Acting like a baby as well would likely throw a wrench in the works. Trans people can be professional in their oriented gender. ABs or littles pursuing their particular, full blown bliss can't be professional, so I can't see how it could be protected.
 
Trevor said:
I don't think these are comparable. As an academic matter, I'd be curious to see if someone could make it fly in the UK but I don't think it's a reasonable comparison. Trans people have an identity that is applicable to the adult world. To apply that to childhood, which is a transitory condition and one which has no place in the working world or higher education seems misguided to me.

The question of who wears a dress or trousers is an open one since dresses and trousers are both accepted apparel for adults at work (of course depending on the job). Diapers, onesies, etc., fit into only a very small slice of practicality and the only time it would be part of work when used together is if someone took a job as an adult baby model or porn actor. Under such conditions, baby wear would be absolutely required to perform one's duties. Acting like a baby as well would likely throw a wrench in the works. Trans people can be professional in their oriented gender. ABs or littles pursuing their particular, full blown bliss can't be professional, so I can't see how it could be protected.

I wish this didn't have to be true, but I agree completely.

I feel like being AB is just as valid of a question of identity as is homosexuality and being transgender, but the real life application of what challenges Adult Babies encounter is very different from the other two groups. Businesses are hiring adults, they are hiring male and female adults, so they have to accept that some may identify differently than what their counterparts expect, and that some of those adults have a partner or spouse who is the same gender and wants to stop by and drop off lunch. Meanwhile, Adult babies can remain discrete about their identity, and if they don't, they obviously aren't maintaining an Adult composure, which is what they are hired to be, adults.

I wish I could bring my stuffed animal to work with me, but I know that it isn't going to happen that way. I'm sure some people wish they could bring beer to work, but that isn't going to work that way either.

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Trevor said:
Should ABDL behacvior be protected? No. Even "no" to the power of "Hell" producing a "Hell no!" I don't think there's any good justification for that behavior being protected by force of law.

Well, I think it should be protected in the sense of Hate crimes, however I don't think it should be protected when somebody wants to be a baby in public or things like that. If somebody is harassing an AB for something that the AB is doing in private, and then publicly shaming the AB, I'd consider that harassment on the level of defamation of Character and should be protected. Since I personally consider what a person wears under their pants an issue of personal privacy, I'd say if somebody targets an individual for wearing a diaper under clothing, then that individual should be protected.
 
Here's the siting under the disabilities act as it pertains to employment:

Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)

The ADA prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in employment, State and local government, public accommodations, commercial facilities, transportation, and telecommunications. It also applies to the United States Congress.

To be protected by the ADA, one must have a disability or have a relationship or association with an individual with a disability. An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment. The ADA does not specifically name all of the impairments that are covered.

ADA Title I: Employment

Title I requires employers with 15 or more employees to provide qualified individuals with disabilities an equal opportunity to benefit from the full range of employment-related opportunities available to others. For example, it prohibits discrimination in recruitment, hiring, promotions, training, pay, social activities, and other privileges of employment. It restricts questions that can be asked about an applicant's disability before a job offer is made, and it requires that employers make reasonable accommodation to the known physical or mental limitations of otherwise qualified individuals with disabilities, unless it results in undue hardship. Religious entities with 15 or more employees are covered under title I.

Title I complaints must be filed with the U. S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) within 180 days of the date of discrimination, or 300 days if the charge is filed with a designated State or local fair employment practice agency. Individuals may file a lawsuit in Federal court only after they receive a "right-to-sue" letter from the EEOC.

Though the girls' comments don'g involve employment, it certainly might impact on their standing at the school. Obviously they are jealous of you and your achievement. If they bring it up again you should educate them on the ADA and then tell them to go to hell.
 
Tyger said:
[snipped]
Well, I think it should be protected in the sense of Hate crimes, however I don't think it should be protected when somebody wants to be a baby in public or things like that. If somebody is harassing an AB for something that the AB is doing in private, and then publicly shaming the AB, I'd consider that harassment on the level of defamation of Character and should be protected. Since I personally consider what a person wears under their pants an issue of personal privacy, I'd say if somebody targets an individual for wearing a diaper under clothing, then that individual should be protected.

I'll have to think about this one. Defamation of character doesn't fit if it's true, although I suppose you could try to make the defamation case connect to the implications of being an ABDL rather than the actions, i.e., "Yes, I enjoy peeing my diaper your honor, but that doesn't make me an unfit person." I also consider it a matter of privacy but if we bring it into the public sphere, whether intentionally or unintentionally, I wonder if it isn't fair game.

Although it isn't at all nice, I think that if and when these things are brought out into the light, we're going to have to expect a certain amount of fallout. Once upon a time, most ABDLs were exceedingly careful about sharing this even with loved ones. The potential consequenes were too high. Most of us still don't want anyone who isn't involved or really close to us knowing but the consequences aren't nearly so great as they once were. You could lose a job or friendships over it but it's by no means certain. We've gained a lot and getting hassled because we're not as deathly afraid of someone possibly knowing our awful secret might be one of the consequences.
 
I dug a bit and found that the ADA Amendment Act of 2008 expands Major Life Activities to include Major Bodily Functions which include, bladder & bowel among others. Title 2 covers federally funded schools, like vocational schools, community colleges, and universities, while title 3 covers private vocational schools and colleges. Public or private, if a school, of higher education or not, receives federal money, which, in fact, most schools do, it's also covered under section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. Which cover bladder and bowel incontinence too. I've seen 504 plan templates covering not just incontinence, but poop and pee shyness too. Go fig.

Since the op is dealing with mean girls instead of discrimination by the school of higher education, simply report the bullying to the people who handle such acomodations if you've seen a doc who says you're incontinent, you're covered. Sorry the girls are being, well, what they're being.
 
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Trevor said:
I'll have to think about this one. Defamation of character doesn't fit if it's true, although I suppose you could try to make the defamation case connect to the implications of being an ABDL rather than the actions, i.e., "Yes, I enjoy peeing my diaper your honor, but that doesn't make me an unfit person." I also consider it a matter of privacy but if we bring it into the public sphere, whether intentionally or unintentionally, I wonder if it isn't fair game.

Although it isn't at all nice, I think that if and when these things are brought out into the light, we're going to have to expect a certain amount of fallout. Once upon a time, most ABDLs were exceedingly careful about sharing this even with loved ones. The potential consequenes were too high. Most of us still don't want anyone who isn't involved or really close to us knowing but the consequences aren't nearly so great as they once were. You could lose a job or friendships over it but it's by no means certain. We've gained a lot and getting hassled because we're not as deathly afraid of someone possibly knowing our awful secret might be one of the consequences.

True, I guess it isn't defamation of character if it is true. I still consider it some type of foul play when somebody is purposefully harassing you over something they discovered about you in the safety of your own privacy and spread it to others, but I guess that can apply to everything and whatever level of protection individual's have against that, is pretty much the same level that should be had for AB/DL's. I guess the only case I can think of that it would relate to, would be a teacher in Utah who was on a private forum and posted pictures of herself in a swim suit, a student went onto that forum and found those pictures and exposed her. The courts here ruled that the teacher was well within her rights to maintain whatever lifestyle/hobby she had within a private forum since it wasn't intended to go out into the public. If somebody was to go onto fetlife and look at my AB/DL pictures, I don't think it is reasonable grounds for me to be fired from a job, but if I were to spread those photos on a blog, then I think it would be more understandable.

I do understand though, there is going to certainly be a lot of potential consequences. I think that our community is just slowly pioneering our way through society, and discovering where we all fit in. I know that I haven't been around for a lot of our historic rise, but I get the idea that there are a lot of rising generation AB's that don't like being as quiet as our community used to be. If our community was completely off the radar, then we wouldn't have the benefits of things like a large AB/DL diaper supplier selection.
 
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