Padded girl=Public Property?

[Dawes]

At the root of it, here's the problem:

This is a fetish more than it is anything else. If there are a high ratio of dicks compared to a low-but-still-present ratio of vaginas present, there is absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. That's simply what's going to happen. You can't take the perversion out of perversion.

[LuvsGurl]

See that is not realy the truth, there are more girls then you give credit for. They just do not post. I have meet so many fetishist in the last few months that are "normal people" just because you have a fetish does not give you the right to act like an animal.

THough I have been looking at it from another point of view and can only say that purhaps what I am looking at is the addition of morals into the culture. We have Rules and Laws. Those are built to protect true, and are inforced by the powers that be. However what our culture is missing is morals. Morals are not inforced by the ruling power but the people. They are things that you should not have to be told, but when you cross the line others pull you aside and point out this is not the way things are done.
I am not saying people need to be banned, lynched or anything else.
Purhaps what I have started to see from looking at other Fetish Cultures is that they all have both Rules/Laws and Morals. If the community as a whole is pointing out it is wrong, but nothing is being done it means it is time that the community as a whole,(me included)need to try to iron out a few morals that people should not cross. Even if the first step is nothing more then having a sticky somplace that is for victoms to post the curent Screen name of preditors. I do not know, I am open to ideas. This is just one that I was told by another person today a local Littles Munch.
I just want to see this community grown and be the best that it can be, and still be safe and welcoming to everyone without worring about sexual horrasment chasing people off. You have no idea how many times I have thought about having every bit of my ab/dl life erased from all the sites, and even shut down my shop because people are harrasing me.

Ignoring a behavior is not the option, that is like saying that if a wife ignore her husband beating her he will stop.
there are three Consaquences to an action, and each has an reaction.
A: reward, this shows you like the action,
B: Punish, this shows the action will not be tolerated
C: ignor, this shows the action will be tolerated though not liked.

[Peachy]

Well, this is the internet. People get to be anonymous, so they won't have to deal with the consequences of their actions other than just not getting a response or some rant back that they can just delete. No amount of "educating", ignoring or swearing will really do any help. They can just create a new username and start over.
In the real world, they'd probably be facing a slap in the face or a night in a cell if they came up to you and asked you similar questions about the state of your nether regions of if they could take a good look at what's inside your underwear (that's what 'changing your diaper' eventually comes down to).

So what can you do? I'm afraid there's a lot of work involved in weeding through all the weirdos, pushy types and creeps to find those people you can be friends with without that weird aura of creepiness hanging over the whole thing. I honestly don't see any other way, to be honest.

Peachy

[Jaiden]

Originally Posted by Peachy

I honestly don't see any other way, to be honest.

Honestly?

[dogboy]

I suspect part of the problem centers around having a diaper product to sell and advertising it on the internet. I don't know if you are on the other sites to expand your client base, but lets face it, adisc is going to be the most civil of the sites. After this site, they all become fairly obscene. That's one big reason that I am only here.....not there. I don't mix my venues, even though I am elsewhere on the Internet. Before I retired from my rock band, I was under a very big management agency, and no way would I mix one identity with the other. I'm also associated with the Methodist Church, also on line. Then there is my home online address. All of these have their own place and uses, and they don't bleed into adisc.

I'm also involved with writing and have been published a long time ago, and hopefully again in the future. I don't want to be interviewed by Oprah and have her say, "And tell me, aren't you on a DIAPER SITE?" At some level you have to protect yourself. I would start cutting ties and establishing some new identities. Don't link these identities together. We have to live in this world, and it's very unforgiving.

[Conrad]

Well, I'm pretty sure that this is the reason why most females are skeptical about infantilistic online communities, thus resulting in community with mostly males. As you sated, horny, perverted, weird, socially inept, 50 year old men with no sensibility roam around noobing everywhere with those kinds of weird questions.

[pajamakitten53]

Originally Posted by LuvsGurl

THough I have been looking at it from another point of view and can only say that purhaps what I am looking at is the addition of morals into the culture. We have Rules and Laws. Those are built to protect true, and are inforced by the powers that be. However what our culture is missing is morals. Morals are not inforced by the ruling power but the people. They are things that you should not have to be told, but when you cross the line others pull you aside and point out this is not the way things are done.
I am not saying people need to be banned, lynched or anything else.
Purhaps what I have started to see from looking at other Fetish Cultures is that they all have both Rules/Laws and Morals. If the community as a whole is pointing out it is wrong, but nothing is being done it means it is time that the community as a whole,(me included)need to try to iron out a few morals that people should not cross. Even if the first step is nothing more then having a sticky somplace that is for victoms to post the curent Screen name of preditors. I do not know, I am open to ideas. This is just one that I was told by another person today a local Littles Munch.
I just want to see this community grown and be the best that it can be, and still be safe and welcoming to everyone without worring about sexual horrasment chasing people off. You have no idea how many times I have thought about having every bit of my ab/dl life erased from all the sites, and even shut down my shop because people are harrasing me.

Ignoring a behavior is not the option, that is like saying that if a wife ignore her husband beating her he will stop.
there are three Consaquences to an action, and each has an reaction.
A: reward, this shows you like the action,
B: Punish, this shows the action will not be tolerated
C: ignor, this shows the action will be tolerated though not liked.

I agree with you on this and it should be enforced a lot more than it is unfortunately you can ban someone from a site but then they'll create another account and the cycle starts again. Apart from getting the law involved there really little we can do. Unless we put up a united front about it which would clearly send a message that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

[h3g3l]

Longest. [Non-story] Post. Ever?

Originally Posted by Olivia

But I definitely feel as though the straight (or bi, I suppose) guys in the ABDL community at large think that because diapergirls are their fantasy, they can treat them like sex toys rather than people.

I went on a date with this Daddy/DL. And it was absolutely horrible. He seemed awesome on the phone and on skype and stuff, but when we finally met, it was like he was never addressing me as a person, but me as a fantasy diapergirl. It was disgusting.

This marginalizes those of us whom are NOT like this, Olivia.

The fact is--and I'll return to this because I really believe this is at the heart of the matter--how we comport ourselves in public says something about who we are. Especially in an "anonymous" venue as the Internet, our truer selves may prevail. Are we kindly? Are we hard-headed? Are we perverse? Are we a wise old horny goat with a tremendous sense of gallantry and decorum who can easily shift from talk about science and technology to that of "your mom" jokes? </self-plug> When we remove constraints--or at least appear to remove constraints--of accountability, the kind of person someone really is typically comes through.

I also wanted to address another point you made; that of confusing the part for the whole. This, in my life, makes up about 0.05% of the whole that I am. I think it an error and trap to convince oneself--or be lured to believe--that the part fully represents the whole. And this is the really refreshing thing that I myself have found in this, my first real connection with the AB/DL community. The "regular" crowd on here are actual people. It's one thing to know that I have my own life, that I have a sex drive, that I laugh at my stupid jokes, but it's quite another to make the connection that this is how just about all AB/DL folks live out their lives.

I think it a mistake, therefore, to only have this as a shared interest, a common ground. If I met a woman who wore diapers for fun, it'd be neat, but I'm able to think outside the box in much the same way that I don't salivate whenever I see a woman and think about her vagina. It is just one aspect of the person as a whole; if the whole person is morally bankrupt or socially corrupt or otherwise fatally flawed, no amount of diaper-play can redeem this. This is an outcome of examining the articulation of the person and taking them as a whole. Example: maybe I'm odd, but while the rest of the male world were sporting handsome erections for Cindy Crawford in the early- to mid-1990s, I had no such attraction. I had read a few interviews that she had done, you see, and found her terminally and irrevocably stupid.

Originally Posted by talula

I've only had the problem your describing once or twice here on adisc, and a quick email sorted them out. On diaperspace however, whenever I log in I've been added as a friend by lots of 'LondonDaddyUK' or 'BigDaddy4U' s. And you just ignore them. They're hitting up every single other girl on the site - it's not like they're singling you out especially. If you just don't respond then they don't care, they won't follow it up - some other succker *will* have responded and they'll be going to town over that.

Ah, the old "keep your head down and run" defense.

Originally Posted by LuvsGurl

Second my point was made by many people on here, it is not only girls that have to deal with this, and not only from guys. Yes we are the most common. But those that are Gay have to as well. And I have also had to feild my share to Females wanting to know the same things so they can get off to it as well.

Wait. REAL females, or people POSING as females? This seems ... deviant. Yes, I know. I see it too. I can't believe that, within our context, I should choose THIS to describe as "deviant."

My point is that not all of these people stop or start on sites like ADISC. I would love to just be able to change my screen name, or somthing but how else to I get my shop known. And why is it alway the victom that has to give up normal life? I have known a few girls that have only been active online, though the person has stalked them form more then one site or chat, and hundted them down in person. If a person is creepy enough you will not keep them away, not mater what photo you have, what you say or do.

I mean do you see my avatar as a comeon? you see my eyes, do I say anything in my profile that is a hint? I am already being as open about my relationship, and as unsexual as I can. Aside from stop being myself and lieing about who I am there is nothing else left.

No one is here to protect those girls you do have, so new ones are chased off. leaving guys alone to get more and more agressive in their search. It is a horrible cycle. if you let it happen you loose girls, if you loose girls guys get more despreat, so they stalk more, so you loose more girls. I see no logic in ignoring it.

You are advocating drawing a line in the sand and standing here against the hordes and masses of the Internet. That is a difficult thing to do in practice; trolls and bots vastly outnumber and can easily overwhelm those of us interested in providing some sort of order to things. As for protecting the girls that [the community?] has, I can see this from both sides. Meaning, I'm convinced that there are only about 5-6 actual girls who are involved. A "girl" on the Internet does not exist until they meet a rather high threshold. Until then, they're either a LEO, desperate teenaged boy, or desperate grungy old man.

As Olivia pointed out above, you are somewhat of a public figure, what with your storefront. This makes things difficult. Let me illustrate:

I'm generally awesome. However, I make no secret that I think Olivia Munn and I could have a whole lot of fun together. Not necessarily even sexual, but she seems like an interesting person to go and crawl around inside her mind for a bit. Same story with Patrick Stewart, but I'll focus on Olivia for now. Here's where it gets tricky. Let's say that I meet Olivia Munn in person. Would I tell her any of these things, how I think that she seems like a generally fun person who is enjoying her life? No. Hell no. I'd probably ask her something much more droll to make her feel like a normal human being--"Olivia, do you have any pets, and if so, how often do you take them to the vet's office?" I'd do this out of respect for the fact that, even out in the public sphere of fame--in which you have knowingly thrust yourself--it is nice to be treated like everyone else and like a person rather than OLIVIA MUNN.

Not everyone is able to see this differentiation, though--again, I point you to my "confusing the part for the whole" error here, and in several posts scattered across the site, and in several IRC sessions through the past year--and for these people, you have two options:

1. Articulate the position that, hey, you are a person.
2. Realize that not everyone is emotionally/intellectually/experientially equipped to make this distinction, and move forward.

You've covered #1 quite well in your blog, I think. It's also well-travelled ground on the site, as even I have managed to piece together a reasonable view of who you are. And diapers really doesn't factor too heavily into it at all.

#2, of course, is a much more weighty issue (isn't it always? Hee! Stupid wit ... sorry.). You can, as you've pointed out, adopt one of three approaches. I think Olivia has a good handle on it when she advocates the "ignore" strategy. Because, frankly, I think that's about the only thing you CAN do. People aren't going to "get" it from you telling them--if they've not "gotten" it from your blog that there's more to you than ZOMG DIAPEES, then there's little help that you can provide in a short IM/email/response.

The community should also impose a high cost to spamming/flooding/harassing, which I think is what you're pointing out above.

Frankly, I agree with you. Now we get into the logistics of my earlier comment, though: the people here (for instance) are volunteers. They hold back the Mongols not with a Great Wall, but with a chalk outline of a wall and a squirt-gun. There is a social contract at work, as there are always ways back in to a community if one were resourceful.

Originally Posted by Butterfly Mage

I'm gay. I'm also a Wiccan, so we definately don't view women as property or sex objects.

Blessed be

I'm straight. I'm also not a raving pig-beast, so we definitely don't view women as property or sex objects.

Originally Posted by LuvsGurl

ok, I want to say I am sorry if I came off too strongly at first. I repeat AGAIN I do not think every guy out there is a preditor. I know most are good people and would do what they can to be considerate. All I am saying is that when a person is online at any point on anysite and a girl tells them off for this reason it dose no good. Why? because we are no people. If we were they would not do this. It takes a number of Guys that are of the right mind to stand up and say knock it off you are making us look bad, and only making if less likely for you to get what you want.
I do want a lynch mob, kicking people off is of no use. But if a bunch of people they would see as human would get togeather and contact them and EDUCATE them on the right way to talk to the Oppisate/Wanted sex/person. the Problem would be more undercontrole. It also would make more females comfertable with the community as a whole. Because as we all know one bad apple make the barrol stink.

Ah!

Now we come to it.

This is a MUCH larger issue than how a group of boys/men treats a much smaller group of people on the Internet. It crosses domains as upbringing, worldliness, education, accessibility to education, world-view, and so forth.

Education--true education--comes from Leisure. I'm talking about Josef Pieper's definition of Leisure here; the kind that comes from quiet contemplation. We have precious little of that in our current world, and therefore I would say that we have a lesser opportunity to become truly educated. Hence my point: education is a two-party system. It is not enough to stand up and demonstrate, introduce, lecture, or otherwise lead the proverbial horse to water; the student must be ready and capable of accepting this education. Which, I would argue, is increasingly difficult and does not seem to "fit" with the lives of many of the people who are the likely culprits.

Sorry.

Originally Posted by Dawes

At the root of it, here's the problem:

This is a fetish more than it is anything else. If there are a high ratio of dicks compared to a low-but-still-present ratio of vaginas present, there is absolutely nothing you can do to fix it. That's simply what's going to happen. You can't take the perversion out of perversion.

Ah, but the larger point still stands: perversion does not give license to rude behavior. You, Dawes, will be able to appreciate that carefully-chosen word, what with your bookish ways and all.

Seriously, though, the root goes deeper and is more foul than dismissing this as a "necessary evil" that comes with what we "do." (See above.)

Originally Posted by dogboy

I suspect part of the problem centers around having a diaper product to sell and advertising it on the internet.

Public-space argument, aye.

At some level you have to protect yourself. I would start cutting ties and establishing some new identities. Don't link these identities together. We have to live in this world, and it's very unforgiving.

This advice makes me sad, but this is also why h3g3l is not a nick I use anywhere else. Apologies to the h3g3l who apparently has a Steam account. D'oh!

The bar-bars are indeed out in the woods beyond the town lights, babbling and chanting, but this doesn't mean we give up, throw off our armor, blow out the lights, and prepare to be sacked.

[LuvsGurl]

Thanks to everyones time for answering. I see a lot I can point out now that I have started living in other areas of the fetish life, but That is for another day.

I would like to point out that this problem has not started when i added my shop, it has been going on for years, but if you realy must know it got worse when DF stoped posting as much online (my safty Shield was not visible). My shop only makes it harder to deal with them as I CAN NOT CUT AND RUN.

THis issue may be solved for many in that manner. But if I wish to take that approach I lose part of the person I am finding myself to become. I loose my use to the group as a whole, and I will not be more of a victom.

As to this being the most tame site, that is an oppinion. There are sites with more mature topics that are in a more mature manor, though they are not set up for the reasons this one is. Hence Why I use both. I have brought the issue up at other places and people are able to see the defference I am pointing out between the Powers that be making these changes and the people. I know the Mods and Admin do a good job. I do not question that at all, but as I said those are Rules, and Laws. I am pointing out a needed change in morality and that is a scoial change not a governmental. I will not stop trying to make this community better, it has taken me in even though I am an alpacka to it's group of sheep(not meaning in the fallow the leader manner). I am different as I am just a hanger on that apears to fit in. I am happy to have found a place people accept me, so I want to find ways to make it work more like the dream place everyone invisions it to be. So I supose in a way I have taken up parts of DF's role and pointed out a problem. I know the solution is out there. I also know it is not an easy overnight fix. I am not looking for a patch to the leak. We have all said it is bad, now what we need are people so stop saying it is bad but there is nothing to be done, when all it takes is everyone to get togeather and find a solution. Often you will find that trying to find a way will fix the problem just by getting people all to agree to try.

I am talking about a mindset change and i know that is not easy, and I am not only talking about on this site. I have made this point elsewere and I know people are with me. A better community is never made by the leader it is made by the people. Purhaps if nothing else comes of this thread at least that peice of wisdom will stay. It takes a viallage to raise a child because it takes that village to make a culture. One person or small group can not make a cultural change.
These are my parting words on the subject.

[Dawes]

Good Lord, h3gs -- I tried giving you a plus-d00z for your ridicilously thought-out, expansive, and eye-opening post, but I couldn't. ;/ I already gave you the loves too recently!

Originally Posted by h3g3l

Ah, but the larger point still stands: perversion does not give license to rude behavior. You, Dawes, will be able to appreciate that carefully-chosen word, what with your bookish ways and all.

Oh, I totally agree with this, too. Perversion does not give license to rude behavior. Unfortunately, a community based somewhat in sexuality involves the Internet, a likely cast of characters with hard penises, and a good deal of people who have no understanding of social graces on the computer (or in real life). That being the case, I can't help but feel that there will always be a great ratio of negligible bullshittery that occurs. I certainly don't condone it, but don't believe it's within the power of any one person to be able to remedy, unfortunately.

(I only wrote that because I wanted to be sure people understood that I don't support that kind of interaction with a woman, or with anybody else. See-Why-Ay.)