"Cody and the Baby Start-Over Program"

[teddy564339]

Originally Posted by genbaby

I kept getting enterenped during my readinfg. and was left to think about what migt happened until i could read it. I think that parts of this story you weren't really thinking.

""My first diaper change was horrible. I couldn’t believe that I had actually gone in a diaper and that I needed to have one of the stupid nannies change me (she did so in my crib). But once it was done, I was put right back into my crib, and it was only a matter of time before I fell asleep."


If he wasn't taken out then how was he put back in. oh and perenthese don't really work in conversatoins.


It was overall a good story.

Yeah, I think with my really long stories stuff like this happens. I get on a roll....I end up writing for hours on end, and I go so fast that I make mistakes. And back when I was posting it, I was so excited to post a new part that I rarely took the time to proof-read or edit things. Luckily, most of the time people would catch mistakes such as these as they were reading it so I could go back and change it at that point.


So yeah, the reason for mistakes like these is pure carelessness and laziness. Even now, five years after writing the story, I don't feel like going back through the whole thing and fixing all of those little mistakes. But I'm sure there are others.

[Shen]

Yea, This was definitely my favorite story back on tbn. I'm glad you posted it here.

[Boogeyman]

Dude... Kudos. Not only is your story qualified to be a book, it would be a best seller if it was more mainstream. Seriously, you have some fucking talent.

[Martin]

Great story, I read it before, it's good. Luckily I never had the cliffhanger part.

[Incomplete Dude]

Well this is the first long abdl story I have ever read, and it's very well written. There are some problems to be sure:

• It does matter very much how evidence is obtained for it to be admissible in court.
• Between the statute against cruel and unusual punishments in the constitution and the basic decency of most people (even politicians), such a system could only be created in a totalitarian country. Plus, such a large program could never stay secret for long. Speaking of which, they go to great lengths to keep the town quiet, then allow totally untrustworthy friends of certain victims to see them. This is contradictory.
• There are neurological reasons it is impossible to be "deconstructed", because things like language are learned during a special "critical period" and after that are permanently hardwired. Sure you can suppress stuff for a while (ex. POWs, Stockholm syndrome), but after being removed from the harmful environment the effect quickly dissipates.
• Anyone going through such a program could never be "fixed", they would instead suffer severe mental disorders, such as depression and PTSD.
• This program is just brainwashing; a process which has been thoroughly discredited. The only successful reform programs ever implemented require the participant's willing participation. Now, if a delinquent was willing to be treated as a baby (aka was AB), then it may work. Even then it would not be a blatant reeducation program as you paint it, but rather a safe environment that allows a person to resolve their issues with guidance but ultimately by themselves.
• Of course, some of the technology used in the story is totally unrealistic (a drug that makes you selectively enjoy baby things? lol), but that is fairer game in fiction. Most readers don't understand technology very well to begin with, unlike the social issues.

Now, I would have also liked it if the end results for people who were fully "reconstructed" were explored. Also, I would have enjoyed the ending more if Johnny had used his newfound wealth to acquire a 15 megaton nuclear bomb and turned that facility, adjoining city and its inhabitants into a sheet of glass. Still, by going the way you did, you ensured it was more thought provoking than satisfying, and I respect that.

Additionally, it's interesting to note, but no one in your entire story is actually ABDL. Everyone eventually sheds their infantile habits completely and with disdain. Still, it would have been nice if Luke/Cody compromised by keeping Timmy and perhaps some other AB things, hehe, if only because I really love my bear and could identify with that. However, it really does paint ABDLism very negatively. But then again, that stuff isn't really the point of the story at all, so it's not a deal breaker for me.

In fact, if you replaced all the baby stuff with more socially palatable physical torture in a foreign country, you would have publishable material. Sure you'd have to expand on some things, like have a few chapters directly covering Johnny's escape and recovery instead of just summarizing it as a recollection. Again, you'd have to go into more detail about how the program was created and its founders too, in a kind of side-story. Rhines, for example, despite being the arch-villain is under-developed and one dimensional. Lastly, the mass market want's satisfaction before thought (but both are important), so the ending would have to be made vindictive. A sabotage of the collars leading to a revolt in one of the centres would have been very enjoyable, and it would demonstrate the transiency of the effects they created in the inmates. But yeah, with some tweaks, it could be published probably.

Did I enjoy it? No. This story made me very angry, but it was still worth reading.

[Martin]

ID: now THAT's why it's a story and not a journal of someone.

Let go of the stuff and read and enjoy the story.

[teddy564339]

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

Well this is the first long abdl story I have ever read, and it's very well written. There are some problems to be sure:

• It does matter very much how evidence is obtained for it to be admissible in court.
• Between the statute against cruel and unusual punishments in the constitution and the basic decency of most people (even politicians), such a system could only be created in a totalitarian country. Plus, such a large program could never stay secret for long. Speaking of which, they go to great lengths to keep the town quiet, then allow totally untrustworthy friends of certain victims to see them. This is contradictory.
• There are neurological reasons it is impossible to be "deconstructed", because things like language are learned during a special "critical period" and after that are permanently hardwired. Sure you can suppress stuff for a while (ex. POWs, Stockholm syndrome), but after being removed from the harmful environment the effect quickly dissipates.
• Anyone going through such a program could never be "fixed", they would instead suffer severe mental disorders, such as depression and PTSD.
• This program is just brainwashing; a process which has been thoroughly discredited. The only successful reform programs ever implemented require the participant's willing participation. Now, if a delinquent was willing to be treated as a baby (aka was AB), then it may work. Even then it would not be a blatant reeducation program as you paint it, but rather a safe environment that allows a person to resolve their issues with guidance but ultimately by themselves.
• Of course, some of the technology used in the story is totally unrealistic (a drug that makes you selectively enjoy baby things? lol), but that is fairer game in fiction. Most readers don't understand technology very well to begin with, unlike the social issues.

Now, I would have also liked it if the end results for people who were fully "reconstructed" were explored. Also, I would have enjoyed the ending more if Johnny had used his newfound wealth to acquire a 15 megaton nuclear bomb and turned that facility, adjoining city and its inhabitants into a sheet of glass. Still, by going the way you did, you ensured it was more thought provoking than satisfying, and I respect that.

Ha ha...it's actually been quite some time since someone has put as much in depth thought into a response to one of my stories. I always find it interesting, because I'm such a simple person writing silly little ABish stories, and yet I've been able to provoke some deep thought.

I do appreciate the thought and insight you gave to my story, and I always like hearing these kinds of comments and even criticisms. I know there are some kinds of flaws in all of my stories, and particularly one as detailed as this one.

That being said...this is a story I started off writing because I was having fun with it. Originally it was going to be a basic humiliation story, but then I was greatly amused by having a character like Johnny in it. The whole idea of the psychology of the program and the realistic details of it kind of flowed from there.

So the thing is...I know, and have always known, there were going to be holes in the plausibility of this story. I had gotten so into the basic idea, and people were enjoying the idea so much, that I kind of got in over my head with the magnitude of the whole thing...so a lot of it I pieced together as I went along and then had to go back and figure out ways to resolve things. Combining this with the fact that a lot of people wanted me to post new parts as quickly as I could...I knew issues like the ones you mentioned were going to be present.

The thing is...that never really bothered me, because I've never written stories to be works of literature, or even to be realistic fiction. I write them because I have fun with them, and they normally don't go as deep as this one did. So while to my knowledge I agree with all of the problems you listed, I'm not personally bothered by them, because to me this has still always been just another AB story.

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

Additionally, it's interesting to note, but no one in your entire story is actually ABDL. Everyone eventually sheds their infantile habits completely and with disdain. Still, it would have been nice if Luke/Cody compromised by keeping Timmy and perhaps some other AB things, hehe, if only because I really love my bear and could identify with that. However, it really does paint ABDLism very negatively. But then again, that stuff isn't really the point of the story at all, so it's not a deal breaker for me.

I actually have always liked the fact that all of this baby stuff is happening in the story, but no actual *B's are ever involved. I like writing *B stories from both angles...from an actual *B's perspective and from the perspective of someone who's not a *B.

Honestly, I never meant to make any kind of commentary on *Bism in this story, nor to paint it in any kind of light, positive or negative. It's just that I have always imagined that most non-*B/DL's would have a major problem acting like babies, and especially being forced to be treated like them...I mean, people have a big enough problem with *Bism, to have it done to them would be a miserable experience, I would guess. Of course, it's just about impossible to guess how someone would feel if this happened to them...but I figured that these characters would have the responses that they did. Do note that even though he dropped all of his *Bish qualities, Cody did opt to choose his "baby" name of Cody instead of Luke in the end, however.

Originally Posted by Incomplete Dude

Did I enjoy it? No. This story made me very angry, but it was still worth reading.

I find that highly interesting....I've had a lot of different reactions from people about my stories, but I think this is the first time someone has ever told me that a story of mine has made them angry. I'm very curious to hear why the story made you angry...assuming it doesn't have to do with the flaws you mentioned or the the anti-ABism that you pointed out.






By the way, I appreciated everyone else's comments too, and thank you Martin for making that last comment that in the end, this is just a *B story...I don't think I've wanted it to be taken as anything more serious than that.

[Incomplete Dude]

It wasn't the flaws. I always notice details like that, but they don't spoil it for me. They're just interesting.

What made me mad was the injustice of it all. The fact that these kids, as criminal as they are, were treated so inhumanely. They were treated like lab rats in a toxicology experiment. Just keep hurting and crushing them until they die emotionally, and measure the results. The system paid no heed to their thoughts and feelings. It collared and shocked them like cattle, and stuck them like a number into a formula for brainwashing and reeducation. The punishments were bizarre and horribly cruel, whereas even in prison you can usually have some kind of dignity. It was obvious that this system would never work in the long run. It might lead to temporary reform, but inevitably the kids would be much worse off. It was the arbitrary imposition of Rhines' will with no true consideration of the impacts, only the assumption of truth by sheer arrogance. It was the staff and townspeople, complacent with this atrocity like the guards of the Nazi death camps. It was the complete flaunting of proper judicial process. These kids are not sentenced to this program for a crime, and when they turn 18 they are not given their adult rights and a choice to leave. This program was simply the state abusing those they consider undesirables in the name of science, like Dr. Mengele's atrocities or the many experiments on blacks and gays.

I don't care what a person does, it doesn't give anyone the right to systematically destroy any mental stability that person has left. The government does not have the right to demand your complete dependence on them. They can lock you up, sure, but they cannot dictate how you think or feel. That is for you to decide. The state has the right to control your behaviour within the confines of law and basic decency, which happens to be conveniently outlined in international treaties. The minute they try to take your mind by force, they become the criminal. They can influence you to be sure, like in experimental prisons where the inmates' emotions are monitored with rewards for staying calm and quick response by the guards when things get heated. However, except where your mind has fundamental or chemical issues (e.g. mental illness, addiction) and not just bad/criminal habits, the state has no right to dictate your thoughts.

Integrity of mind is a fundamental human right, no matter how criminal you are. The state's only cause for intervention is to create and maintain this integrity. Since criminal acts are often rooted in mental illness or addiction, damaging that integrity even more is grossly counterproductive and itself criminal. This disturbing goal was clearly the point of the program in your story based upon the behaviour of the staff and administrators. It was more about the domination of people than anything constructive. That's why I found it so reprehensible.

True reform is co-operative. If you refuse to co-operate, you have a cell to think about your choice in, but that choice simply cannot be made for you. Not if there is to be any chance of long term success. Even when you join the military, and you go through the brutalities of boot camp, it's your choice to be there and you can leave if it's not working out. In this light, the program could work so long as everyone is there willingly. Of course, if you do go in, like boot camp, there are sure to be moments where you want to leave. So perhaps review the decision only monthly, but nevertheless, the reformer must always know that they are going through these hardships by their own choice and for their own benefit. This is the only way the lessons can reach the core of their being, instead of being deflected by emotional barriers. Moreover, the program would have to be adapted to each person to deal with their unique issues. Some people may be suited for the whole baby thing, whereas others need only to go to the 2yo level say. Even in the baby level, there is nothing wrong with teaching calculus say, if the person is able. This kind of reform is about emotional issues, not knowledge. The point is, any reform system has to work with the reformer, mold itself to their particular problems, and never be absolute.

Now I know I'm treating this again with a very realistic perspective when it's just a story. However, that's how I am. That's how I interpret everything I read. Is this plausible? Is this right? How could this be done in the real world? Sure, I can suspend disbelief during the story and enjoy it, but inevitably the questions arise. I do believe that all great stories are fairly internally and contextually consistent, even if they specifically break away from the context of our reality (e.g. sci-fi, fictional society). But it's not a huge deal. It's just something to think about.

Like I said, I thought this story was very much worth reading, in large part because it raises these interesting questions and strong feelings.

Originally Posted by teddy564339

By the way, I appreciated everyone else's comments too, and thank you Martin for making that last comment that in the end, this is just a *B story...I don't think I've wanted it to be taken as anything more serious than that.

That's the thing, once you make the story public, it's out of your hands how it will be interpreted. I personally find this exciting and interesting.

[Mako]

Well actually, I can relate to that, though maybe not in your degree. Now I tend to be a narcissist and when I get really into a story I sort of project myself into the main character, cody was particularly relatable for me considering my "troubled" childhood (maybe not to his degree, but it's certainly how many people viewed me at the time). So it was an interesting feeling when I first read this back on TBN because even though it's something of a fantasy for me to be regressed such as that, I always rooted for cody to escape the cruel start-over program. Where in a lot of "typical" humiliation stories I enjoy and wish it to continue, because well, I wish it were happening to me.
Ron's story created that interesting conflict for me.

[Incomplete Dude]

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head Mako. However, for me it goes beyond that, because even though Cody and Johnny eventually escaped, there were hundreds maybe thousands still trapped in the system. The story didn't have them freed, but left things as an open question. Righteous anger was my response.

That doesn't make the story worse, to be clear. It's a perfectly acceptable way of ending it, and one that evokes thoughtfulness. I respect that.