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IDoICD Part 3 (Conclusion): The Self-Harm Debate (Reposting)

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I deleted the draft for the original post and thought editing the deleted entry would work and that people would see it. Just case people can't see it, I'm reposting the full completed post.

Finally the conclusion to my blog series is here!

Before I start with the topic at hand, let's recap what was said in parts 1 and 2. Part 1 served as a basic introduction to BIID and hopefully created some awareness about the disorder. Part 2 went into more detail about the specifics of BIID and how it relates to my situation.

So now we have the final issue to address. Many who are against the idea of wanting incontinence see working to achieve it as a form of self-harm. Drastic methods like abusing catheters, laxatives, and sticking stuff up your butt is seen as self harm, and that's an agreeable notion. However, matters such as natural diaper training and hypnosis are not so black and white. Some would argue that natural diaper training is somehow a form of self-harm and even the idea of working towards incontinence be it through universally agreed upon forms of self-harm and more gray areas like natural diaper training and hypnosis is a form of self-harm in an of itself. I don't see why one would think that if the person desiring incontinence is informed and well educated about their choice especially where BIID is concerned. Wanting to be an amputee is the common disability desire among BIID sufferers. BIID can lead to legitimate physical forms of self-harm but compared to the norm, incontinence desire seems to be a milder and more tame form of BIID because it has a method of achieving the goal without engaging in any physical form of self-harm.

How anyone could see what amounts to mental retraining as self-harm is beyond me. Especially when it's more tame compared to cutting your own legs off or purposely damaging your spine to become paralyzed. Yes, BIID can lead to self-harm and it's good to get help for it from an expert so that you can maybe find a way to achieve your goal that doesn't involve physical self-harm. The point here is that incontinence is a total gray area when it comes to this. Perhaps the definition of self-harm is more gray and subjective than people like to believe it is and they morph the definition to conform to their own personal beliefs and values. However this leads me to my second point.

A smoker still chooses to smoke even though he knows it has a high risk of causing lung cancer and other lung diseases. A person whether an alcoholic or a responsible drinker continues to drink alcohol even thought they know it could mess up their liver in excess. The point here is that even if mental retraining is self-harm somehow and while I'm in no way condoning physical self-harm, what I am condoning is the fact that people have a right to do what they choose with their own bodies. A smoker has a right to poison their lungs and an alcoholic has a right to poison their liver. We might not agree with it but it's not our job to police other's bodies. People need to be free to learn from their own mistakes. We can offer support, but at the end of the day, we are not their parents, nor their teachers, nor their therapists or doctors. We are just random people on the internet who they've probably never met in real life and more than likely never will.

Again, I'm not condoning physical self-harm but at the same time it's ultimately their own body and they should be able to do what they please with it. We don't have to agree with it, just respect their wishes for their own bodies. We can help them work through their troubles the best we can and help get to the root of the problem, but ultimately it's up to them whether or not to go through with it or seek professional help. It's true that some trans folks may have buyer's remorse but the majority seem happy with the change, I believe people with BIID for incontinence can be able to enjoy the same low rate of buyer's remorse that gender transition enjoys.

At the end of the day, if mental retraining or IC desire is self-harm, and if self-harm is wrong, I don't wanna be right.


  1. daLira's Avatar
    I don't have that much to say (do I need to say something by the way, I feel forced to do so ;), just kidding *huggles*)

    Honestly, I think the self harm discussion is off the table. Basically, what are you doing?

    You want to wear diapers all day long. How could that be self harm? You're just doing it and not forcing it on you to need them in any way, which could or would be considered self harm, depending on how.
    However... grey shades... the desire to be IC, uhm is a strange and unpleasent idea, which is wrong, generally.
    But you're not trying anything stupid to accomplish it, so the idea is basically of the table.

    And when it comes to your mental desires, or things you think for yourself, simply put. If wearing diapers makes you happy. Wouldn't it be more tormenting and distressing not to wear them?

    Just my opinion =)
  2. SnowPrincessSophie's Avatar
    Perhaps I should only make the first 2 posts public? Seeing as the "conclusion may not have been needed at all?
  3. littlelodgewrecker's Avatar
    hello there...
    i know something of Body Integrity Identity Disorder. and i have some experience with folks enduring life in long-term care. i am also trans.... and have had to deal with the effects of self-harm.

    i have looked/read back through your history on ADISC and not found any description of your living situation. well, other then several references to being yelled at a lot... even a very good poem called yellow-tears...
    but given what i have read, your situation can't be very good, and likely need to be changed for your health.

    but having known as many trans-folks as i have in the real-world, and knowing that many of these (my friends) had their very private kinks... mostly revolving around the core-idea of being cared for or protected in one way or another. i understand where you are coming from and am not here to tell you that it necessarily wrong in any absolute way. i have been there in ways that would be against ADISC rules to list here.

    however, in my 59 years what i have learned is that it is much better to be in control of ones life and future, than not.... in other words, i have won and lost a great many things in my life, both physical and emotional. but what i have now is mine.... no one will ever take better care of you, then you.... but it may take many decades for you to realize that just as it has me.

    happy trails to you, Princess;
    lodge wrecker....
  4. SnowPrincessSophie's Avatar
    What better way to be in control of one's own life and future then to create an identity for yourself and choose how disabled or abled you want to be or are meant to be. or to chose to be as female or male as you want to be. Even then's not a case of wanting but rather having 2 different identity dysphorias combined into 1 mental identity of myself and how I should be. The identity is there, it exists, I can't help feeling the need to make my physical self match my mental image. I can choose to address the issue and pursue congruence between my mental and physical self or I can choose to ignore it and accept myself as I currently am or find other ways to deal with or simply not deal with it at all. I chose to address the issue directly and take steps toward putting my physical body more in line with mental image of the sweet, intelligent, incontinent, child-like girl I strongly Believe I was meant to be. Making that choice to me is what I would consider being in control of my own life and future.

    At least that's how I interpret your words. Thanks for the kind words and understanding.
  5. Capybyra's Avatar
    Don't forget- there's a huge percent of non-kink mundanes- including in the psych gatekeeper realms- that have deep rooted childhood personal or learned as adult- TRAUMA DISSONANCES over anything involving toileting. Not even needfully kink and even way short of SI/SH issues.

    Our identity is as we need it to be. Full Stop- not up for "their" arrogant telling us a damned thing about how we identify.!

    The harm injury issues are subjective and often less the issue they seem. - the Adult Baby / Diaper Lover / Incontinence Support Community. is designed to be viewed in Firefox, with a resolution of at least 1280 x 1024.