Server Upgrade discussion

[Jeremiah]

What does silver get?

[d4l]

Originally Posted by Moo

The idea is that I want to give people a completely free choice as to whether they set up an automatic donation or a manual one.
The perks donors get are based on how much they donate, not whether they donate automatically or manually.

you misunderstood what i meant i was saying that you should have two groups a one time donation=donator status whereas multiple donations would give you donator plus status which would have more perks.

[Lukie]

Originally Posted by Charlie F

Larger PM storage? That could be cool.

Aww! You mean people actually get that many PMs that they need more space? This... makes me sad...

Originally Posted by Ben

I personally don't like perks for donations at all. IMO people should donate because they appreciate this website and wish for it to continue. I think giving extra thing to people who donate etc. kinda ruins that mood.

Originally Posted by avery

i totally 100% agree with Ben. he may not talk much, but when he does he always talks sense!

trying to entice people into donating by waving toys and sweets in front of them makes everything start to seem really institutional. we're a warm, close community, and we donate because we care personally about the site, not because we're taken in by some shiny reward that's been created to lure us.

This is why Moo is calling for increased donations. People simply aren't donating to this site, what with the lack of incentives and all. We all wouldn't have a site in the first place if Moo had to keep paying out of his own pocket for it. In the *ideal* world, this place remains a close-knit community where everyone appreciates the service and donates because they want to see this place continue running strongly. But we aren't living in such a world - yes, we may be close, and yes we all want to see this place thrive, but we just don't have a high enough number of donations to continue any of that.

Realistically, there wouldn't be a site if people didn't donate to it. As it stands right now, there isn't much reason to donate beyond the goodness of our own hearts and a few minor incentives. As "institutionalised" as you'd like to call it, keep in mind that you - in fact, no one - would be here if there were no donations at all. The fact that not everyone shares similar sentiments of continued growth and the close-community aspect means that only a handful of people are regular, or even semi-regular donors, and I certainly don't like the idea of relying on a certain group of people each month to keep this site alive. What if they leave? Who will step in and pay the bills? I certainly wouldn't be happy if I had to pay for a site where no one donated, albeit having many members who could donate, and above all, are prominent in the community.

Ben, you said, "people should donate because they appreciate this website and wish for it to continue." - That's exactly what I was getting at when I pointed out that not everyone shares similar sentiments. Do I feel people should donate? Yes, I do. But can we make them? No, we cannot! I'm sorry, but that statement is rather contradictory. This all goes full circle back onto incentives. People are just unwilling to donate, especially when there is a lack of reason to do so, except for their own goodwill. Incentives have always been a way to get people to do stuff they don't really have to do. It's a rather terrible thing, but that's just what we are like. Hell, I'll admit, I'm the last person to raise a finger when there is no reason to do so. I donated, but not the the coloured username or the status in the post-bit. I donated because I love being here and the services it offered. Just like buying music - yeah, I could just download an album, but if I love the artist that much, why don't I actually buy their CD?

Incentives are a good idea, but finding the right one's will be a difficult task. There is a lot that could be offered, but we have to be careful that they don't boost someone to a higher status above others. I agree that donations should be given purely because the person enjoys the services being offered to them, but that simply isn't the case.

[avery]

Originally Posted by Lukie

This is why Moo is calling for increased donations. People simply aren't donating to this site, what with the lack of incentives and all.

actually, if you've been paying attention you'll note that the site has reached or exceeded its goal of $60 a month donations ever since the option to donate was introduced. and unless you're going to tell me they all did it because they want a pink name, they did it because they care about the site and not because of incentives.

we wouldn't need more than $60 a month donation if we didn't require a server upgrade, and we wouldn't require a server upgrade if we weren't trying to lure more and more people onto the site with google ads, etc. if you have to entice people to sign up with ADISC then you have to entice them to donate to keep the site running with all the new people, and you fall into a self-perpetuating cycle. pretty soon it's more about marketing than it is about helping people.

i think that as long as the site is reasonably visible on the internet people will join up here if they want to, and they'll willingly donate enough money to keep the place running. i think the whole system of rewards and lures is puerile and idiotic. only silly childish people can be motivated to do something by little toys and gimmicks. the only thing i care about is the respect and trust of the community and the friends i've made here. that's the only meaningful kind of status you can have here, and it's not something you can give to someone as a reward for donating.

Originally Posted by Moo

If you don't like that idea, then leave me a PM or requests forum thread stating this, and I will ensure your donation doesn't get used for advertising.

obviously it's not that simple. my money is no different from anyone else's money once it's in your pocket. if you're spending money to advertise the site, then all donations go toward financing those ads.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Lukie

This is why Moo is calling for increased donations. People simply aren't donating to this site, what with the lack of incentives and all.

Minor interjection and Moo can correct if I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure we've met the donation quota each month since it was instituted. The only complaint I've seen Moo make is that the cash tends to clump up at the end of the month which makes it a bit worrisome, and understandably so. I expect it didn't get the job done prior to having a number up there, but I've watched the balance pretty closely and I think we've always made the mark once we were aware of what was actually needed.

*Looks like avery beat me to the punch with the bit about donations...and his was longer besides! Ah, well. Just wanted to make it clear he and I were typing at the same time and it wasn't to jump down your throat, Lukie.

[Lukie]

It's not so much about enticing people to the site, avery, it's about allowing the site to grow. I've said it before, there's only two ways in which the site can go, growth or death. Surely you'd have to agree that you prefer the former, given only those two options.

I'm not going to argue with you on the point that advertising will bring in more people and we will lose that "closeness" that we have here. But I cannot deny that if we don't bring in new members and let them develop in the insightful, intelligent community we have here, then we'd just become like any other diaper fetish forum. Right now, we pose as the role-models for this community, and in hopes - well after we leave - that today's newbies will continue on in our fashion. This is why we need to advertise and why we need to have steady growth.

And yes, I had noticed that we have been reaching the monthly donation goal. But I was talking in the context of Moo's projected monthly goal after all the little things are in place - a total which definitely exceeds $60. I understand that this amount wouldn't need to be higher if we didn't require a server upgrade and we didn't advertise, but that ties back into the paragraph above. As we get larger, which ultimately we will, then we will need the bigger servers. Just as an initial outlook, once we have quite a few active members, then I would greatly support cutting back on advertising, since it would no longer be needed.

Don't get me wrong avery, I do love the closeness of this community and the friends I've made here. That means a lot more to me than just coming on here to talk about diapers. But I'm not one sit back and watch the community fold in on itself - not that that was happening, but it is one possible outcome if we don't set in place something to prevent it. If you are worried about it bringing in unsavoury members, then don't be. The current userbase is more than enough required to repel these people from the site, only at the expense of having to read one awful post on the forums. Through that, it is how we shine as a community. The one thing we all believe in is keeping those dreadful people out of here. Once someone gets the idea that they are not wanted, then they leave. I think if we focus our efforts more on being a honest and genuine community, the more filtered our new members will be. Understandably, that sounds a lot like a "Big Brother" state of mind, but it ultimately means the difference between keeping what we already have in continued growth, and losing everything.

[avery]

Originally Posted by Lukie

It's not so much about enticing people to the site, avery, it's about allowing the site to grow. I've said it before, there's only two ways in which the site can go, growth or death. Surely you'd have to agree that you prefer the former, given only those two options.

the argument that the only two options are stratospheric growth or cataclysmic decay has been raised before, and i didn't accept it then any more than i do now. our site will not "fold in on itself" if we don't advertize on google. that's just a bad excuse for a bad decision.

during the year or so that moo was pretty much inactive (you were inactive at that point too, lukie) our site was not advertized and we had hardly any links on other sites. moo did nothing to promote us. nevertheless, we experienced a gradual steady growth in membership and posting. if we actually WERE facing declining membership and there appeared to be a real risk that the site might cease to exist i would support efforts to promote us more. but in light of the fact that we grow even when we do nothing, i think promotion can only harm us. as i said before, what intelligent person EVER clicks on an ad?? only morons would ever be suckered in by a google ad, and morons are not the sorts of people we want in our community.

i can totally understand moo's desire to quantify his success. if we see a 25% increase in posting over the coming month, he can point to it and tell himself and others that he's a good webmaster and his website is thriving and prospering. but i don't think creating a successful community of this type can be quantified. by that logic the most successful AB/DL communities would be DPF, deeker, and ABY.com. prioritizing quantity over quality in membership is a move that's aimed at turning us into a site like that. i wish moo would realize that he's already created a successful community, and he doesn't need numbers and monthly growth figures to prove that to anyone.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Error404

Thanks for clearing all of that up for me Moo. Good on you.

Anyhow. Regarding linking. I was speaking to BabyJunior before, he was saying to me something along the lines of this:

If I can get him full access (I'm guessing, able to use chat and view all but administration forums, view gallery and what not) then he'll put www.adisc.org as his Sponsored link for a month. You'll probably have to discuss the intricacies with him as it's his site and this is your site. I'm sure you can both work something out together though

:/

Access to the special areas of our site (VIP/regulars forum, etc) is not for sale at any price. If Babyjunior ever asks for this again, I'll ban him myself, and make sure he stays banned. He's already at -8 rep. Under the old rep ban system, he would only need 2 more negative rep points to get a ban anyway.

[Peachy]

On the donations issue: Personally, I think an ongoing subscription is a rather cost-inefficient idea. PayPal transaction costs (0.35 cents plus 3.9% of the amount) plus transaction costs on my side of the deal (banking fees) eat up a lot of the money meant to contribute towards the website. When I donate (which I will do as soon as the flow of donations has gone down a bit - to allow for a more even spread of donations), I would not buy a subscription but rather fork over a bigger one-time donation.

In the light of that argument, it would be better to hand out "perks" (whatever they may be) for a time frame determined by the size of the donation. So someone who contributes $50 gets 10 months of $5 perks as if they had been contributing $5 for 10 months. I don't think different there's any ground for different "perk levels" as there's not a whole lot of perks you can give out in the first place (other than pink user titles).

Peachy

[Error404]

Originally Posted by Moo

:/

Access to the special areas of our site (VIP/regulars forum, etc) is not for sale at any price. If Babyjunior ever asks for this again, I'll ban him myself, and make sure he stays banned. He's already at -8 rep. Under the old rep ban system, he would only need 2 more negative rep points to get a ban anyway.

Don't take what I said about BabyJunior as solid fact. I'm not quite sure WHAT he wanted, so you'd be better of discussing it with him yourself. I asked him to post in the requests thread regarding such, but of course, whether he has or not, I do not know.

I can't say I can even pretend to know what got him all that negative rep, he's only made two posts, one that was partial advertising of cheap diapers, and although that's not exactly 'OMG BANNAGE' material, -8 rep seems a little over the top, but that's just me. Maybe there's more that I don't know about, but, I'm just looking at it objectively. We rarely talk, so. I dunno.