treating newbies: mandatory reading

[Raccoon]

I am disturbed at how we are perceived by many newbies, and by the outside world, when this perception is at odds with who we really are.

One step we could take is make this: Howto welcome a Newbie and The Rulesmandatory reading; auto-pm it?

All a person would have to do is open the message, then mark as read (using an I agree button at the bottom; maybe with checkmark boxes that must be checked to activate "I agree" which is necessary to get registered.

Overbearing and complex? I say no. People could check boxes and click "I agree" with the thing unread; but ANYBODY who reads the thing is bound to have their behaviour improve, if there is room for improvement. Change those stickies from "suggested reading" into "mandatory reading."

Is it too much to ask that people know what we call "good behaviour"? Can we not automate people knowing the things THEY NEED TO KNOW in order to be able to function here? Should we not eliminate the problems with people who just want to dive in and post - and get yelled at and neg-repped to oblivion for not having read Howto welcome a Newbie and The Rules
The site is big now; automating things is more important since the information in those stickies is not traveling via social contact, not being absorbed and understood through the process of participation.

I once erred on another site, where I called a supposition a "conjecture" and got flamed and negged to oblivion; a site where social policy was assumed to be understood if you were there in the first place. But it was not a support site: This Is.

<No, we should let our rules be absorbed through osmosis, business as usual; anyone who opts not to read FAQ's, stickies, and wickies has only themselves to blame. Natural selection is the best model by which to run a support site. Lazy or stupid people clutter up the place and lower its entertainment value, and the quality of the membership. They wreck the "vibe" with their immaturity, their boring moaning about life issues and their illiteracy. And unfunny suggestions and debates and "TL: DR posts>

A big part of a support site is indeed being a social space to gather and have fun: the fun is at least as therapeutic and helpful to the soul as advice on ickinesses: being suicidal, not knowing which tapes stick best, how to ask for Molicares in Finland.

Do we want to be a support site that entertains as part of the support, or an entertainment site, that offers support as a sideline?

Oh, I apologise deeply to the experienced members who will resent having to take time from their busy schedule to check 2 dozen boxes and click "I agree." This is a heavy burden I know, and I would spend my time better participating and having fun, than long-winded suggestions and explanations when the site works just fine for all, and can never reexperience the recent drama as long as everybody takes their "chill pills" and shuts the f*** up about improvements and site issues. Heard it before. It is an imposition to force anything on anyone; "ignorance of the law is no excuse" while "knowledge of the law" is voluntary, and only required for some (ie newbies): not those outside the law (you know who you are: you proclaim it.) We have no right to insist people be nice to newbies, or know a good meme from a bad one; if they can not be bothered to figure this stuff out for themselves that is their own lookout.

[Jeffy]

Your message is clear and your intentions are good...
What your trying to do is noble and well-needed in my opinion!
But what your trying to do seems a little unethical in the stance that making an account would take much longer now that we're trying to enforce this mandatory reading of the rules and how to treat newbies...
Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea, just a couple flaws I'm seeing here.
How can you make anyone online read anything?
Like you said, they can just scrooooll on down to the very end and click the "I Agree" button or checkbox or whatever. You can't force anyone to do anything online. Have you ever read all the legal agreements when you install a new game on your computer? No! You just click "I Agree" then "Next"... NOBODY would. Especially a gigantic wall of text...
What COULD be done, however, is maybe a condensed version. Like...

1. Be nice! And people will be nice to you!
2. Always re-read your post!
3. Don't spam!
3. Keep in mind that this is a SUPPORT COMMUNITY and new people come here to get help for something that they don't quite understand fully yet. Let's make a good example of ourselves.

If you follow these simple rules life here on ADISC will be pleasant and helpful

Allthough I doubt if anyone will take the time to read THAT :/

but this also gave me an idea http://forcedreading.ytmnd.com

[Raccoon]

Can't actually force anyone to read something. But strong encouragement will have some measure of success, reach some people. A project that might not FULLY succeed is not worth trying?

[dogboy]

I just neg-repped you for confusing supposition for conjecture. How dare you sir! You were on a harsh site indeed. It sounds like a site for English college professors. Only they would be that anal. Of course that would include my daughter..haha!

That said, I think the shortened version might work. The problem may be deeper than just rules however. The heart of it all may lie in the fact that not all members are created equal. Some simply are shallow and mean spirited, and no rule in the world will change their personalities.

Then of course there is the newbie who is not representing themselves honestly. That kind of new member is usually a spammer trying to get a reaction. "I was just wondering, should I change my incredibly poopie diaper today, tomorrow or next week. I just lost a bet to my dominatrix and she put me into this locking diaper, and I was just wondering."

I'm not sure anyone should treat someone like that with any respect. To me, they are goldfish in a barrel just waiting to be shot, usually by a ridiculous Dogboy story.

[Pojo]

Please tell me what is wrong with the current situation to where you feel the need to constantly bring up threads and ideas regarding newbies? Sure, there are members who can be harsh to some new threads and whatnot, but it's only because their thread looks iffy. That being said, it's not a huge problem. It's really making me tempted to actually block you, so I don't have to see your constant "newbie-related" posts.

[adaffme149]

Originally Posted by Jeffy

Your message is clear and your intentions are good...
What your trying to do is noble and well-needed in my opinion!
But what your trying to do seems a little unethical in the stance that making an account would take much longer now that we're trying to enforce this mandatory reading of the rules and how to treat newbies...
Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea, just a couple flaws I'm seeing here.
How can you make anyone online read anything?
Like you said, they can just scrooooll on down to the very end and click the "I Agree" button or checkbox or whatever. You can't force anyone to do anything online. Have you ever read all the legal agreements when you install a new game on your computer? No! You just click "I Agree" then "Next"... NOBODY would. Especially a gigantic wall of text...
What COULD be done, however, is maybe a condensed version. Like...




Allthough I doubt if anyone will take the time to read THAT :/

but this also gave me an idea YTMND - Forced Reading

But, in stating that these are the rules, you are now supposed to read them, here they are, when you reach the bottom, you can continue. and are thenceforth assumed to have read the rules, and will be treated as such, you have taken away all possibility for ignorance. Just as if a cop were to be reading you your Miranda Rights, and you cover your ears and go "ADADADADADADAAAA I can't hear you!", you were read your rights, and are expected to know them; the fact that you chose not to listen, is your own perrogative, and something that you will have to deal with yourself. It removes all ability for innocence of the rules. Plus, if it were stated that not reading the rules was against the rules, skipping that in and of itself would be a violation of the rules, therefore saying "I didn't read them, sorry" would be a violation of the rules in addition to the previous violation. Rock. Solid.

Just as if you skip the EULA whilst installing software. I've never carefully read the MS Office EULA, for example. But, I'm assuming it is just as all commercial software EULA's, "Do not decompile this software". Although I haven't read it, there's most likely also a "By clicking next you agree to be bound by these terms" line in it, or something, and thus, if you install it and then decompile it, you are in breach of the EULA, even if you have not read it. Simple. No force necesary, force them with words.

And, accepting a PM before posting would serve two purposes: The afforementioned, AND, it would reduce spam to ONLY those done by real people who bother to read and all, if we ever were to have that issue.

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by Pojo

Please tell me what is wrong with the current situation to where you feel the need to constantly bring up threads and ideas regarding newbies? Sure, there are members who can be harsh to some new threads and whatnot, but it's only because their thread looks iffy. That being said, it's not a huge problem. It's really making me tempted to actually block you, so I don't have to see your constant "newbie-related" posts.

The site's nature constantly changes, as it grows, and as people age, some leave and others join. Just like the law, it should be stable but not stand still. Constant improvement prevents stagnation.

As a support site ADISC is meant to serve the members who need its help: and chief among those are the newbies. Having many members who don't know how to fit in alienates them, and also the veterans by making the site less closely-knit. Being nice to people is site policy.

If we pretend the recent drama didn't happen and don't prevent its recurrence it will happen again; and ignoring it might not make it go away next time. By all means ignore any of my posts you don't like, if that would make the site a better experience for you. And I will work on making the ADISC experience better for others, new members especially.

While most of us have a good time , there really are others whose experience is less than it might be.

[Pojo]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

If we pretend the recent drama didn't happen and don't prevent its recurrence it will happen again; and ignoring it might not make it go away next time.

What recent drama?

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by Pojo

What recent drama?

All the stuff that inspired these threads: and many more like them.

http://www.adisc.org/forum/regulars-...-up-adisc.html

http://www.adisc.org/forum/regulars-...disc-site.html

There was a lot more going on around here than just Kraiden leaving. Read those threads; Ask around.

This captures the flavor of that unfortunate period:

We're not a tight-kint community anymore, no one isgetting to know each other like we were in the old days. And yeah, sure, the old days are done and gone, I get that, but for fucks sake, There's so many people with VIP status, and no one knows who the fuck they are (no offense anyone). Everyone is changing names, people are flooding into VIP status like there's no tomorrow... It's just another anonymous forum because people aren't taking time to get used to the people that are here already-- because everyday there's a dozen new people who we have to get used to at the same time. Reconstruction of ADISC Butterfly Mage said:

I think most of the drama came when a handful of high-level members took it upon themselves to create several threads whose sole purpose was to declare "Oh my god! We have too many new members! We need to barricade ourselves behind fifteen layers of additional defense since nobody with REP under 50 or is over 25 years old could *possibly* be trustworthy!!!!l"

People are leaving because the welcome mat got yanked out from under their feet. That is not a *new member* problem. This was caused by people experienced enough to know better.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Raccoon

I am disturbed at how we are perceived by many newbies, and by the outside world, when this perception is at odds with who we really are.

If there is an issue with newbies perceiving us in a negative light, and you find more examples, please PM them to me.

As to the idea of an 'I agree' checkbox - I don't think anyone would read it. Do you read the legalese you're shown when you sign up for a website?

The rules are accessible already (though I should probably link to them from all forum pages).
The 'how to welcome a newbie' thread is a sticky in the greetings forum - it is already very visible.