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Old 01-09-2008   #2 (permalink)
Lukie
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Well, the bible isn't meant to be taken literally, or at least I think so. There's too many contradictions and "gaps" for it be anything but just a guideline to live your life by. I'm not treading heavily on your religion here, I'm just saying in that regard alone, I doubt that the serpent has self-consciousness, that it wasn't aware of it's own existence or was anymore intelligent than the snakes we have nowadays.

There is one thing though that I think you are missing. The serpent itself is not an actual serpent, it's merely an image, a representation of Satan. It was how Satan chose to appear to Eve so that she could be tempted. Much in the same was God appeared as a burning bush to Moses. Would you say that the bush was sentient? I wouldn't. I'd say the bush was a mirage created by God so he could appear in form to humanity, to a lesser species that couldn't possibly comprehend his actual image. Sure, if you take it literally, then the serpent may have spoken to Eve, but keep in mind that it wasn't a serpent, it was Satan in comprehensible form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millenniumfalsehood View Post
The first reason we agreed upon was that the serpent was punished, in a way that you read God punishing humans, not animals. Since animals are not sentient, why would God bother explaining His reasoning? Hence, the serpent may have had an intelligence higher than other creatures. He was also described as cunning.

Finally, another interesting thing we talked about is that the Serpent had legs before he talked to Eve, because God made him to crawl on his belly. IIRC, snakes do have places for appendages to attach to their skeletons, but the appendages themselves are missing.
You don't seem like a character who'd believe in evolution, so I'll make this part quick. Snakes, more than likely, evolved from lizards or other scampering reptiles. As they lost their limbs, their physiology and body structure in some parts remained unchanged. That's why snakes still have appendages where limbs could be attached, but don't actually have limbs. Just how humans have a seemingly useless appendix. It probably once had a use, but as we evolved, it became unneeded but stayed with us.

Going on what I said before though, God didn't punish an animal, he punished Satan. Taking a literal approach, God may have left snakes like that as a reminder to humanity not to give into the cunning and temptation of evil. You have to understand that the bible originated in times when people were a lot more simple-minded than they are now. Stories are a lot easier to pass on when you actually have a visual representation of the concepts you are talking about. Snakes/Serpents are seen as slippery, underhanded creatures ready to kill, they are good predators, lurk in dark places and have a strange, mysterious and alluring aura about them that almost tempts you to investigate them. Now doesn't that sound an awful lot like how Satan is usually described? A creature of "darkness", full of temptation, looks good on the surface but will ultimately be the end of you.

I'm sorry, but I just find that to be too much of a similarity to be coincidental. Like I said, people use what they know as representations of things they are trying to explain. Everyone knows what a snake is and it's a prime example of an evil creature, perfect to represent Satan. So to wrap that up, no, the serpent didn't have sentience. It was merely used as a literary device to help make the concept of Satan easier to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millenniumfalsehood View Post
The second reason was that the serpent talked to Eve. The interesting part isn't that it talked, because Satan could talk to Jesus later in the New Testament, but that Eve talked back! If serpents had never talked before, why wasn't Eve shocked and fearful of this? She probably had encountered talking snakes before, so it probably wasn't a new thing. She and Adam may have even been friends with serpents, thus making it easier for Satan to convince Eve to eat of the fruit.
If you can understand my above rebuttals, then you can probably see where I'm going with this. All I can say here is that even though it says serpent in the bible, that doesn't mean it was actually a serpent! Satan just chose the serpent to represent himself, so therefore the "serpent" could talk. Satan was the one giving knowledge to Eve and with that sort of power, I'm sure Satan could have given her the knowledge to understand what was happening. That could be reason as to why she was not fearful.



Overall though, I will say the same thing I say in all religious threads. Don't take the bible literally! It should be used only as a guideline to live a morally good life and isn't meant to be used as a definitive.

Just as a side note to all, I'm not a religious person nor do I believe in God, Satan, the bible or talking snakes. What I've said above was just to convey my thoughts in a "if it were true" situation.
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